Will My CO2 Chamber Kill Hatchling Balls Too?

[satomi325]

Seeing the use of multiple peer-reviewed journal articles in order to make your case makes me warm and fuzzy inside.

Well done Nikki!

Thank you! Couldn't have done it without you.

[JohnNJ]

i have seen studies about how to kill rhodents with CO2, however, i have never seen a study comparing CO2 to alternatives like nitrogen, helium or nitrous oxide. I say nitrogen, a noble gas, or nitrous oxide are superior, and noone has disproven that claim so far. I see them as studies about how to kill animals with a poorly chosen and problematic gas, showing that if you do everything right it can still be humane, by looking at the reactions of animals that cannot talk. I think the use of CO2 is purely based on tradition and on the fact that it works a bit faster than nitrogen or a noble gas.

Also the studies dont take into account human experience of exposure to CO2. They look at how rhodents/animals react, and when there are no apparent/conclusive signs of distress they think its fine. But that immediately flooding with pure CO2 does cause distress is obvious. Only humans can talk, and human judgement about the different gases is crystal clear. There we have test subjects that can precisely tell you how different gases feel, in modern english.

so, go ahead, show me studies that include a comparison of different gases and/or that include human experience. When i can get 4 or 5 different gases in the same pressurized cans at about the same price, i know i wont pick CO2, and i think noone should.

Here's another.

J Am Assoc Lab Anim Sci. 2006 Mar;45(2):21-5.
Comparison of carbon dioxide, argon, and nitrogen for inducing unconsciousness or euthanasia of rats.
Sharp J, Azar T, Lawson D. Department of Physiology, Wayne State University School of Medicine, Detroit, MI, USA.

Abstract

We compared CO(2), Ar, and N(2) for inducing unconsciousness and euthanasia of Sprague-Dawley rats. We determined time to unconsciousness and monitored heart rate (HR) and mean arterial blood pressure (MAP) by radiotelemetry to assess stress, recovery after exposure, and time of death. Unconsciousness (mean +/- standard error) occurred 24 +/- 3, 87 +/- 8, and 93 +/- 8 s after short-term exposure to CO(2), Ar, and N(2), respectively. During exposure, CO(2) depressed HR, whereas Ar and N(2) increased HR. Upon removal from the chamber, rats' HR rapidly normalized after CO(2) or N(2) but remained elevated for 60 min after Ar. During exposure, all agents depressed MAP, which returned to resting levels 10 to 50 min after rats' removal from the chamber. For euthanasia, CO(2) at approximately 100% induced unconsciousness in 37 +/- 3 s, increased and then depressed MAP and HR, and caused death at 188 +/- 15 s. CO(2) at approximately 30% induced unconsciousness in 150 +/- 15 s, decreased HR and MAP, and induced death at 440 +/- 9 s. Ar at approximately 100% increased MAP but decreased HR, induced unconsciousness with hyperreflexia at 54 +/- 4 s, and caused death at 197 +/- 20 s. N(2) at approximately 100% decreased MAP but not HR and produced unconsciousness with hyperreflexia at 164 +/- 17 s and death at 426 +/- 28 s. We conclude that CO(2) effectively produced unconsciousness and euthanasia, but we were unable to ascertain distress. Ar also appears effective but produced hyperreflexia and tachycardia. N(2) was ineffective.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16542038

[NinjaKittyz]

I do not like this thread either.... ur already thinking of killing babies before anything has hatched??? Besides, just because a baby has a deformity, that doesnt justify any need to kill them. In our collection, we have three snakes with deformities. I would NEVER think about killing them.Just because they dont qualify as breeders, or for a spot in your collection,doesnt mean they cant be given away or sold cheaply as fine pets!

Sent from my H866C using Tapatalk 2

I know it may seem cruel, but there are snakes born with such severe deformities that they won't make it. Would you rather see said snake suffer, starve and have to be in pain, rather than putting it down before it has a chance to suffer? I'm fairly sure the OP isn't talking about a kinked tail, born with only one eye.