Caramel

[scooter11]

I have a female caramel and a spider het caramel that I plan to breed next season. Lately I have really been into pieds and I'm staying to rethink some things. I plan on buying a male and female pied and starting some pied projects. I'm contemplating breeding the caramel to a pied male now, which would give me all double hets. Now my problem lies in the following pairing. When I put the two double hets together I get a host of possibilities. Normals, het pied, het caramel, and double het pied/caramel. How on earth do you Id the differences, is it possible? Do I have to breed them to prove them out, is that the only way? Same goes for the pied, pied het caramel and caramel, caramel het pied? Am I in over my head for wanting to attempt this? I really want to make a caramel pied.

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[MisterKyte]

Well, there's the problem with breeding dbl. hets because in reality, there's no solid way of knowing. I think everything that isn't visual (because you can also get Caramels, Pieds, Caramel het. Pied, etc) would just be labeled as a Possible Het. Some folks also tag on the percentage of the possibility (like $25, 50%) but since I'm not great at calculating that stuff I'm not going to touch it.

[scooter11]

Yea, everything I could get other than a caramel pied is a possibility. That's what makes me wanna steer clear of this. They are just so awesome though.

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[MisterKyte]

Well I mean, go for the project if it's something you're excited about and willing to devote a large portion of your resources into (Because as I'm sure you know, it can take a really long time to hit that double recessive) but you could also just wait and try to put aside some money for a full Caramel Pied.
Personally, the way I would try to go is look for a Caramel het. Pied/Pied het. Caramel, then buy a mate that would compliment is (Like the Caramel het. Pied to a full Pied) then you'd get Pied het. Caramel offspring and you could breed that back the original Caramel het. Pied and you'd have a one in four chance of visual Caramel Pieds. If that makes sense.
I mean, that's just the downside to double recessives though. Unless you buy the full visual outright, it will probably take a good deal of time/resources no matter what.

[joebad976]

Lots of resources or not, hitting a Double Recessive is very rewarding IMO. Sure it can take a while but this is a great hobby so if your plan is to make a carmale pied then go for it. I will be going for it hopefully sooner than later.

[MisterKyte]

Lots of resources or not, hitting a Double Recessive is very rewarding IMO. Sure it can take a while but this is a great hobby so if your plan is to make a carmale pied then go for it. I will be going for it hopefully sooner than later.

Of course it can be rewarding but if you don't have the resources to be prepared to potentially house clutch after clutch of Possible Hets than this probably isn't the best option for a project. Believe it or not, that's a really important factor here because hitting double recessives will usually take a lot of time unless you get very lucky and hit the odds the first time. I mean, christ, I think Garrick DeMeyer took like four years to just hit the Albino Pied. That's four years worth of poss Hets we're talking about here.

[scooter11]

I completely realize that is tough to hit and could take some work. With that said, if and God willing when I hit, id feel like I won the lottery. I like that possibility. But your right, it could be alot of possible hets.

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[joebad976]

It takes time but that is the fun part about it. I dont think you should keep 100 possible hets.

As you start producing some you probably want to keep a few visuals possible het.

You will still have a nice group of 100% double hets to breed as well. I think it is a good project.

I wish you lots of luck if you decide to take it on.

[scooter11]

If I do take it on, that is what I would do. Id keep the visual possible hets.

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[RandyRemington]

Selling the possible hets (pet stores) isn't the problem; it's getting good eggs from the caramel female to start with. Some report good clutches from homozygous caramel girls so research and hopefully you can find a way to reproduce their success. Or you could start over with a male caramel.