What morph is he?

[angllady2]

He is a very dark brown pastel yes. He does have interesting side markings for sure, I can see where you thought calico. I don't think it's YB, but with those weird sides..... Ask for a belly picture to know for sure.

If he's not asking a ridiculous amount, his sides might be worth toying around with. It might do something interesting to a gene like spider or enchi.

As a pastel, yeah he's really not very good. But man those sides just kill me. He'd be hard to pass up for the right price, just to see if he passed those sides on.

Gale

[bunnykit]

He is a very dark brown pastel yes. He does have interesting side markings for sure, I can see where you thought calico. I don't think it's YB, but with those weird sides..... Ask for a belly picture to know for sure.

If he's not asking a ridiculous amount, his sides might be worth toying around with. It might do something interesting to a gene like spider or enchi.

As a pastel, yeah he's really not very good. But man those sides just kill me. He'd be hard to pass up for the right price, just to see if he passed those sides on.

Gale

I LOVE his tail, and the way his markings just FADE away, I haven't seen that with pastel OR yellowbelly o.o The bad part for me is that he is in another country as it is, but the seller is coming to my country for an expo that takes place in a few days. I'm tempted to go, but I was supposed to go to a friends place that weekend. Oh dear lord, the temptation though...but yeah, even with pastel and yellowbelly he doesn't fit my breeding plans for more than maybe Ivory, and I wasn't aiming for that within the next few years.

I wonder how bumblebees from this guy would look like? o.o Does anyone know what the result will be like if one used a 'dirty' pastel in a breeding project? I honestly like brown and warm colors more than screaming yellow, I've never fancied pastels because they are so bright, but I had never seen such a dark pastel before, and never heard of anyone breeding them or combining them with something else.

[bunnykit]

Do you have any idea how old the snake is?

Andy-

No, he didn't mention that in the add :/ I just registered at the forum, I'm just waiting for my registration to get accepted so I can ask for some belly pics of the snake, I'll ask about the age while I'm at it. Not sure at all if I want to buy him, but I am a huge fan of brown, so if the belly looks cool I might be tempted. As a pastel, yeah, I agree with most people, he is not good as that. I didn't even recognize him as being a pastel, and that should say something.

[SlitherinSisters]

Definitely a dark/browned out pastel. Do they have any belly pics?

[angllady2]

Well, 99.9% of the time, everyone including me will tell you: NEVER breed a pastel that brown to try for a bumblebee or anything like that, because he will kill the yellow you look for in bees and such.

BUT, those weird sides he's got.... man I'd be so very tempted to breed him to a spider just to see if he made the spider high white sides even better.

I understand your dilemma, and you probably should pass on him. Just....those sides! I would love to find out if he passed them on.

Gale

[bunnykit]

Well, 99.9% of the time, everyone including me will tell you: NEVER breed a pastel that brown to try for a bumblebee or anything like that, because he will kill the yellow you look for in bees and such.

BUT, those weird sides he's got.... man I'd be so very tempted to breed him to a spider just to see if he made the spider high white sides even better.

I understand your dilemma, and you probably should pass on him. Just....those sides! I would love to find out if he passed them on.

Gale

Yeah, I'll pass up on him. I'll go over to my friends place and enjoy meeting a bunch of friends instead xD He does have a neat tail though o.o and even if everyone says that; 'don't breed on this, don't breed on that', if everyone listened to everyone we wouldn't get any new coloration at all I guess.
But yeah, this one...nah, to much hassle for me to pick him up, to much hassle to try and breed him out. I have a fabulous spider, and he is getting a fabulous girlfriend or two in due time. But yeah, I love brown...and that tail, dear soap bubbles....that tail, I just love it.

Heck, I'd be tempted to see what he does if mixed with butter or lesser O.o or something else that makes a two gene combo with pastel. Everyone goes like; Oh no, don't use the brown pastel! And on his OWN, and just PASTEL he is bad, but what would he do to combos? His color variation is bound to bounce out right in some kind of combo....but since no one is breeding on his coloration no one knows what combo that is.

[bunnykit]

I have been accepted on the forum where the guy who has the snake is. I mailed him and asked for some more pics, hopefully he will respond soon.
The only new info I could find on the snake was that it is a proven breeder, meaning he is at least adult for sure. I will try and see if there are pics of his offspring, and what his age is. Maybe he mated for the first time this winter and the babies haven't come yet, I dunno.

I wonder what he was crossed with o.o

[angllady2]

I will let you know, the main reason why you hear so much "Don't breed this to this and don't breed this to that" is because there are certain pre-conceived notions of what a certain morph should look like.

Snakes that come the closest to that ideal will always sell faster and for more money.

While snakes that don't come close to the ideal, or are on the other side of the country from the ideal are in general much harder to sell and will not fetch the higher prices of snakes that do meet the ideal.

There will always be variation. Both in snakes of a certain morph, and in what people like in a specific morph. However, years of experience in the field and thousands of reptile shows attended you pick out trends, you can't help it. A bright yellow bumblebee with little or no flecking and a crisp, clean pattern will always sell faster and for more money than a dingy greyish/yellow bumblebee with tons of flecks all over the body and a muddy pattern. Even if some people prefer the greyish bee, more people want the super bright yellow. By breeding to cater to the market, you sell your snakes easier and make actually make food costs some seasons. Sure you can breed only for yourself, I know people who do. If you don't care how long it takes to sell a baby, or that you must ask $100 less for your snake than a market standard snake sells for, then by all means breed for yourself. No one can tell you if you should or shouldn't breed to market standards, that is a choice you must make. But be aware of the choice you make and how it will affect you.

I see dark orange and orange/yellow pastel babies at every show for $50, and usually they appear from one show to the next, because they are hard to sell when they are not yellow. Sure there will always be people who buy it just because it's cheap, but by and large, they don't sell easily.
Robyn, an Admin here, has a Pastel male named Winston. He produces exceptional babies, she sells them for quite a bit more than $50, and she always sells out. Most of the time she has a waiting list in fact. And why? Because her babies are worth it. They come from exceptional market standard parents, and go above and beyond most anything you'll see in the market. People know this, and they don't hesitate to acquire a snake that will add so much to their breeding stock.

I am not trying to tell you do this or don't so that. Just be informed and make the choices that work for you. That's all any of us can do, really.

Gale

[bunnykit]

Here is a belly pic, is there really yellow belly in there? I can't see it? O.o

[Mike41793]

Hes just a brown pastel imo. I think the sides look so funky because hes so brown. If he was more yellow like other pastels then those sides would look normal. I don't think theres anything special going on there, i would pass.