Do I really have to...?

[UltraViolet]

I had snakes 25-30 years ago back in the dark ages before the internet was invented. I learned what to do from my pet shop owner friend and the chapter about pet snakes in a reptile book he recommended. My first snake, a two year old chocolate brown rainbow boa, had newspaper on the bottom of his tank, a hot rock, an overhead bulb for heat, and a water dish. Every Saturday, I took out the paper, wiped the bottom of the cage with a sponge if anything had soaked through, put down some fresh paper, rinsed his dish, and gave him clean water and a live mouse. Then, I took some really bad advice about snakes loving sun and it never being too hot for a rainbow... and killed my beloved Tai. I cried for weeks, and that was it for me and snakes. A few years later I got a ball python and a redtail boa, but it just wasn't the same so after a year I let them go to new homes.

Fast forward to last month when I brought Pandora home, knowing I could do better than in the past, and found this site. I have learned a tremendous amount, and made a lot of changes based on information I've found here. Pandora is thriving in a far better environment than my other snakes had as a result. So please understand, I am not against changing the way I do things, and it is not my intention to take shortcuts or cheap out and risk hurting my snake. I am very open to reasonable recommendations and cautionary tales.

Recently, there have been multiple threads about tank cleaning and disinfecting, involving bleach and antibacterial stuff and really frequent disinfection and cleaning schedules. Is this really necessary? It seems excessive. Please don't just say "because your snake will get an RI or other dread disease and either die or cost you a million dollars at the vet." That didn't happen to any of my other snakes who didn't have the benefit of near-sterile conditions. There were no respiratory problems, no skin problems, no parasites, nothing. I'm not feeding Pandora in her enclosure because she's never been fed in her enclosure, and she doesn't seem to mind being handled, so there's no chance of mouse-born issues. I remove poop and urates promptly along with all the cypress in the area and make sure the glass is clean. My plan was to replace substrate completely and hose down the tank and all its contents every couple of months or any time there was stuck on yuckiness that needed more than a couple passes with a damp sponge. I use hot water and a sponge on the water dish every other day when I change the water. So why isn't that enough? Is it because of the increased humidity in modern tanks? Do I really need to do all that cleaning and disinfecting? I'm not criticizing, I'm looking for information.

[ClarkT]

No, you don't have to. If signs of an RI show up, then you should disinfect. I don't bother with all of that disinfection, and my snakes are healthy and happy.

Some people take comfort in cleaning and disinfecting more often. My collection is just fine without it.... but I only have 49 snakes and counting...
Happy Herping!

[WtGreg]

For a pet, I would suggest real bedding and spot cleaning the bedding. This way you can spread out larger, full cage cleanings. However cleaning does have to be done.

If on newspaper, then more cleaning will be needed. When you get into racks with lots of snakes, you don't want one animal to get sick in there with all the rest, so cleaning is more important there, especially again if newspaper. With newspaper, I will clean with a quick rub down with a chlorhexidine solution EVERY TIME something has been dirtied, but that's just me. If the paper is just crinkled up, or is hardly a spot, I may cheat and just change out paper, but anything more I do a clean. I am strict about my cleaning because I have had sick snakes and I hate dealing with sick snakes, so I am all about preventative measures after learning the hard way a while back what can happen, and since getting fierce about it have had no problems.

They don't need 100% sterile conditions as pets, but I don't recommend bad conditions either (in fact I do recommend sterile conditions, just saying they aren't needed). This is spot cleaning. You get the big stuff so it's not a problem, then any little residue stuck in is so minimal that it isn't sterile, but isn't harmful, and when you do the big clean it will all be taken care of.

I don't think you need to remove her from the enclosure to feed. It can stress out the snake, and I have not heard enough to feel it is worth it (and yes some will argue this). I have always fed in the enclosure. Just get the mouse poop when spot cleaning.

So do you need to do all this cleaning? well, I would suggest every so often you should. Get some chlorhexidine solution, bleach is debatable and certain plastics can supposedly react negatively to it. If using bleach, clean it out super well. Also the bleach solution doesn't have to be strong, a mere 10% bleach solution will do the trick.

Please don't just say "because your snake will get an RI or other dread disease and either die or cost you a million dollars at the vet."

But if you aren't willing to go the extra mile your snake really could get an RI or scale rot, and really could die. You can't ask people to make points and expect them not to make the most obvious and important point. If you aren't willing to do all you can to keep the snake healthy, don't own the snake.

If you wanted to get into breeding ever and I read a post stating you wanted to not do work for healthy snakes, I would never buy from you, so if that is also in your future, start getting used to being clean now.

Best of luck!

[MrLang]

At the risk of getting hung for saying it, I think you'd probably be fine disinfecting once a month or so. I think there are a lot of people that spot clean as they see poo and urates and do a full clean every month. Remember, when animals find themselves sitting in filth in the wild they crawl to another spot. They don't have this luxury in captivity.

I pretty much only clean my snakes' tubs when they make a mess of them. Sometimes that is a month apart, sometimes it's 3 days apart. When I do clean, I don't obsess over every nook and cranny. I don't think expensive snakes should be treated better than cheap ones or pets, but the value of the animal certainly plays into the level of concern people have for their health. Sometimes being overly concerned is a bad thing, though.

For instance, my mom didn't let the house stay dirty but I was encouraged to play in the dirt and hygiene was not necessarily at the top of the list in my house. I have an extremely strong immune system. When I got a little sick, I wasn't rushed to the doctor. My body knows how to handle this stuff. A lot of the people I know whose parents kept a virtually sterile environment get sick every time the wind blows. Life didn't evolve on this planet with harsh chemicals blasting around everywhere all the time killing everything.

Bad flora competes with good and the general balance of things keeps the harmful stuff to a minimum. This balance fails if there is too much filth harboring the bad or if there is too little good keeping it in check. Too dirty and too clean an environment are both dangerous in my opinion.

[mike689]

I just want to ask one question. Are you still using the heat rock? They are REALLY not recommended anymore as they can seriously burn your snakes. Just want to make sure that you are aware of this.

[Kaorte]

I think some people get a little crazy when it comes to cleaning. I give my tubs a good scrub once every month or every other month (when they need it) and spot clean/ change paper substrate weekly.

[BHReptiles]

I think some people get a little crazy when it comes to cleaning. I give my tubs a good scrub once every month or every other month (when they need it) and spot clean/ change paper substrate weekly.

That's exactly what I do. I clean and disinfect maybe once a month or two. All other times if the snakes dirty the tub, the newspaper is changed and their tub is wiped down to prevent buildup of moisture. I've not have any diseases, scale rot, or injuries yet. -knock on wood-

[tsy72001]

No, you don't have to. If signs of an RI show up, then you should disinfect. I don't bother with all of that disinfection, and my snakes are healthy and happy.

Some people take comfort in cleaning and disinfecting more often. My collection is just fine without it.... but I only have 49 snakes and counting...
Happy Herping!

Same here, I spot clean. Every couple of months I will remove everything and wipe down with vinegar.


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[UltraViolet]

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. To clarify:

1. No, I don't use a hot rock. I have a UTH with a thermostat and an overhead light with a 50 watt night-glo bulb just to the side of the hot side hide. The hot side thermometer probe is on the glass over the UTH and reads 88-93, the probe on the cool side sits on the substrate and registers temps from 74-80 depending on the temperature in my room (which is hot in the summer). I worry about Pandora getting cold- I'm terrified of overheating. I have a lot of respect for the knowledge on this site- my tank setup is testament to that.

2. I have no intention of letting Pandora live in filth any more than I intend to myself. My house is neat and tidy and kept clean with periodic deep cleans and frequent, as needed, spot cleaning- and so is hers. I don't use bleach wipes on the counters or antibacterial cleansers in my house and wasn't planning to in hers. What I was asking was why more is needed to keep her healthy. I am absolutely willing to do whatever is necessary. I'll let my kitchen get trashed when I'm making dinner and sometimes don't deal with it until morning, but once dinner is made I'm in a different room. I've had cats who wouldn't use a litter box if I didn't scoop it daily. It totally makes sense that the snake is captive in its enclosure and can't go someplace cleaner, so it has to be impeccable at all times. I've worked in healthcare for decades. Most of the risk of infection comes from outside sources. If I had multiple snakes in close quarters I wouldn't be questioning the need for frequent deep cleaning. But I have one snake, and nothing foreign goes in her tank but my hand.

3. "You have to, or your snake will die!" Ok, that is a compelling argument. But it doesn't mean anything. Doctors use it all the time to get pregnant/laboring women to consent to unnecessary procedures. Wild ball pythons live in the dirty, eat wild rodents, and take over their burrows as living quarters. They get all kinds of parasites from it, but still have a longer average lifespan than captive balls. The credibility is a little weak. However, sometimes babies really are at risk and wild snakes die young and maybe there is a credible reason for all that disinfecting being necessary. Thats what I was asking. For instance- if I was told that cypress substrate and 60% humidity in an 85 degree enclosure grows nasties way more readily than newspaper in a dry environment or outdoors in the sun, that tells me something. I already agree that even clean looking substrate needs to get changed and everything needs washed periodically. If the general agreement was that there were significantly more vet visits when the time between complete tank disinfection increased from 2 weeks to a month, that gives me a sense of the degree of risk- and I'd be rocking the bleach water as soon as I was done ordering tank disinfectant.

What I've learned so far is that practices vary within a set range, and outcomes are similar. That's really helpful. So, again- Thanks!

[meowmeowkazoo]

I would recommend using F10 if you're worried about endangering your snake. It's very gentle and won't harm the snake even if it's still a little damp when you're done disinfecting.

With that said, I keep my animals on paper. When they make a mess, I remove the paper and waste, wipe down the tub with a Clorox wipe, and put in new paper. It's worked for me for years, and it's fast and easy. I clean the water dishes with a sponge, dish soap, and hot water.

I have never had any animals become sick, but I once adopted a beardie that had coccidia. For that I cleaned and disinfected with an ammonia solution every day.