Thoughts on morph pricing levels

[Royal Hijinx]

I think quality definitely has a say, but I am talking independent of a particular project or morph, and just on the base market price for a morph and where it falls in the hierarchy.

High quality to me means that the price of the given morph will fall on the very high end of its market value.


My overall intention here was to see if other folks also see there are dividing lines, and at a certain point the transactions are simply breeder-to-breeder.

IMO it is not healthy for a morph to stay in the super high bracket for too long. Then you see the huge drop. This really screws over that middle tier guy who buys in too high, and can actually sour folks on the morph a bit and drop prices more. So the big guys who bought early, make a fortune, but really kinda screw over the folks they sell to right before the bubble breaks. When this happens, layers are skipped money making opportunities for the mid and small breeder are missed.

[Royal Hijinx]

Idk, i was sorta just ranting, steffe. Lol.

I don't have any multi gene snakes yet but id consider all my snakes to be pretty good examples of their morphs. Does that mean im low range hobbyist? Or since i have nice snakes, does that make me high end lol?

You are thinking in terms of quality of a specific morph. When I say high-end in this case I am talking about expensive animals, this is a price tier, not a quality tier. So, it is high end FOR a beginner breeder not a high end beginner breeder, if that makes sense. Meaning that for folks generally on that level, that is a lot to spend on one animal.

[BHReptiles]

I read this on my phone this morning (couldn't respond) but I think it's something that goes through all our minds but maybe not in quite so much detail as well as in a way that we may not recognize. This is my first season breeding. I would consider myself a hobbyist. However, I don't think of it in terms of levels like that. When I see an animal (say a lesser yellowbelly clown: http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...-yellow-belly/ )that I think is totally awesome and I wish I had...I'm not thinking about "oh this falls into ____ range so I can't get it because I'm not a _____ breeder/hobbyist." What I do is think "Goodness! That's a hot snake at a yikes price." So I move on. I let people who can afford it get those animals but I make a point to taper my breeding projects to one of those awesome combos that I can make myself.

It's pretty much the same philosophy, I'm just not consciously thinking about the technical aspects of it. Like Mike said, I would love to one day be able to retire, build a HUGE snake breeding facility, and live out my days breeding really cool, high-end morphs. However, I'll probably still be at a house with a snake room enjoying each little head that pips from their egg because that's what I can afford and what I enjoy. I hope that made some sense.

[bfirecat]

IMO it is not healthy for a morph to stay in the super high bracket for too long. Then you see the huge drop. This really screws over that middle tier guy who buys in too high, and can actually sour folks on the morph a bit and drop prices more. So the big guys who bought early, make a fortune, but really kinda screw over the folks they sell to right before the bubble breaks. When this happens, layers are skipped money making opportunities for the mid and small breeder are missed.

I think that you have an interesting point here. However, prices are in the hands of the seller AND the buyer. Why did the super high price morph drop in the first place? Was it super saturated in supply? Was there a "defect" found? Was the price lowered to move along the snake more quickly? Was the priced lowered to compete with other people lowering their prices? Depending on the price drop, I'm sure there can still be money to be made as long as quality babies are produced. Mike Wilbanks has a good video up on Youtube called "The Ball Game" and it has a part 2 as well.

In econ, everyone is happy when the price hits equilibrium (the point of which supply meets demand at the perfect price point). I think that as long as people are willing to pay some amount of cash on a morph, the morph could stay at that price point. It is inevitable that prices for all morphs will fall, but I do all morphs will hit a plateau and stay there. I think that single genes will always be less expensive than a double gene (not saying that a bumblebee is worth more than a GHI).

To answer your question, I do not see myself as a large scale breeder. I see myself as a small scale breeder that is hopefully going to produce higher quality/ more sought after morphs (and morphs I like).

[Kaorte]

I think quality definitely has a say, but I am talking independent of a particular project or morph, and just on the base market price for a morph and where it falls in the hierarchy.

High quality to me means that the price of the given morph will fall on the very high end of its market value.


My overall intention here was to see if other folks also see there are dividing lines, and at a certain point the transactions are simply breeder-to-breeder.

IMO it is not healthy for a morph to stay in the super high bracket for too long. Then you see the huge drop. This really screws over that middle tier guy who buys in too high, and can actually sour folks on the morph a bit and drop prices more. So the big guys who bought early, make a fortune, but really kinda screw over the folks they sell to right before the bubble breaks. When this happens, layers are skipped money making opportunities for the mid and small breeder are missed.

In my mind, I read "High end" and "High quality" as two different things. Once upon a time bumblebees were considered more "high end" but there were most definitely some that were of very poor quality.

I think those lines are pretty accurate in terms of common genetics - rare genetics, but most hobbyist breeders might have quite a few on the lower end, and only a couple on the high end. So would you categorize people based on their highest morph?


I do agree that the middle tier people get screwed over in a way. The more people that start working with newer morphs, the more the price seems to drop. It can be very hard to buy your way into some of those top projects. I'd love to get involved in some of them, but I am afraid of the huge drop you mentioned.

[bfirecat]

In my mind, I read "High end" and "High quality" as two different things. Once upon a time bumblebees were considered more "high end" but there were most definitely some that were of very poor quality.

I think those lines are pretty accurate in terms of common genetics - rare genetics, but most hobbyist breeders might have quite a few on the lower end, and only a couple on the high end. So would you categorize people based on their highest morph?


I do agree that the middle tier people get screwed over in a way. The more people that start working with newer morphs, the more the price seems to drop. It can be very hard to buy your way into some of those top projects. I'd love to get involved in some of them, but I am afraid of the huge drop you mentioned.

I completely agree with the high end vs high quality difference. I haven't gotten my daily dose of caffeine yet

I can see why people categorize themselves or try to, but there are always outliers. I guess my answer for that would be categorize by the high end.

The "huge" price drop is relative I think. Is the price drop 30%? 50%? 90%? Regardless of the price drop, I think it is still possible to get some (at least a good amount) of your investment back.

[collrak]

I have a simpler view. My perception is that the majority of the customer base (probably 80%) falls into these two categories.

1. Hobbyist/Future Breeders

a. Getting their feet wet with the species and may breed them in the future. Has <10 Ball Pythons.
b. Working with common genes
c. Comfortable with spending <$300, but may spend up to $500

2. Small Breeders

a. Has <50 Ball Pythons
b. Working mostly with common genes and may have aspirations to work with rarer more expensive genes
c. Comfortable with spending <$500, but may spend up to $1,500

If you want to bring in new money and see "volume", then you need to produce animals that are within those “sweet spot” price ranges. Anything above that range, then you are probably dealing with medium to large scale breeders who as you mentioned may be involved in trades or partial trades to obtain new animals. You’re also dealing with a smaller and more savvy segment of the customer base (~20%).

I think this leads into the more important question to consider, which is “How is the customer base distributed?” You could sell 10 Pastels for $2,000 or you could sell 1 Spark for $2,000. Volume vs. Price. Is it easier to find 10 customers who want a Pastel or 1 customer who wants a Spark? The gene(s) is also critical in this discussion. Just because a gene is new/rare doesn’t make it desirable.

I bucket myself as a "Very small breeder" and these are the points that i consider when i think about pricing and the financial viability of a particular morph/combo.

[Kaorte]

I completely agree with the high end vs high quality difference. I haven't gotten my daily dose of caffeine yet

I can see why people categorize themselves or try to, but there are always outliers. I guess my answer for that would be categorize by the high end.

The "huge" price drop is relative I think. Is the price drop 30%? 50%? 90%? Regardless of the price drop, I think it is still possible to get some (at least a good amount) of your investment back.

Oh it is for sure relative! Nothing in this hobby is set in stone. Well, maybe the FACT that ball pythons are awesome But there are people out there who absolutely loathe the ball python community. I can't understand it!

I don't really feel the need to categorize myself per say, but I think it is interesting to analyze these trends of breeders.

Over the last 5 years of owning and starting to breed, my tastes in morphs has changed greatly. Now that I have close to 30 ball pythons, I am starting to consider what will happen once these animals start producing for me. What is my next step? My Significant Other has thought about this much more than me as I am, at the moment, fixated on my first few clutches of eggs! I don't care what comes out as long as they are healthy! We have been tossing around the idea of making an investment on a very high end male (5k+) but that wouldn't be for another couple years..By that time, the animals we were originally looked at will probably have dropped down into an affordable price range. Thus removing the need to invest in that particular "high end"

[Mike41793]

as I am, at the moment, fixated on my first few clutches of eggs! I don't care what comes out as long as they are healthy! We have been tossing around the idea of making an investment on a very high end male (5k+) but that wouldn't be for another couple years..By that time, the animals we were originally looked at will probably have dropped down into an affordable price range. Thus removing the need to invest in that particular "high end"

This is how i feel too (except not quite *that* high of a price range) as far as what id like to steer towards. I'm like "well id like to add these 3 morphs, but not quite yet, and by the time ill need that then itll be cheaper..." Im also hoping that i can sell babies i produce to help pay for morphs i want to have the hobby pay for itself a bit. Then theres also morphs that i really like, but dont really want to work with a whole lot so i only want one nice female example of it. This is why ive started out slower than most with all single genes. Its worked out well because my tastes have changed a lot too since i first started getting into morphs.