How much "floor" space do they need?

[sugar]

Just getting my 20 gal terrarium set up for my first ball. It was for a friends cornsnake before, and he gave me a hide just the right size for a hatchling, and a water dish about the same size. I have one side set up to be the warm side with a UTH and one set up to be cooler. I want to have a hide and water dish on both sides but if I buy identical ones it would take up 75% of the floor space in the terrarium. Do the hides and water dishes need to be identical (I read that somewhere), or does it matter so long as they are the proper size? How much actual floor space does a ball need to move around? I don't want to crowd the little guy.

[Inarikins]

A baby BP can easily be kept in a 10-gallon. You want your hides to fit your snake snugly. BPs want to be touched on all sides by their hide so they feel secure. I like plastic dollar-store cereal bowls with an opening cut out. Easy to get two of and they'll hold your snake until they're 200-300 grams easily, maybe a bit more if they like wearing their hide as a hat. You only need one water bowl.

Have any pics of your setup? How are you heating, how are you regulating that heat, and how are you measuring your temps?

[Kaorte]

They don't need a whole lot of "empty" floor space. Actually, if anything, they like it more cluttered. So if your water bowl and two hides take up almost all the floor space, no big deal. The snake will be in the hides most of the time anyway.

[sugar]

Thanks Inarikins, I'll probably be getting one that's only technically a hatchling, probably over a foot long. Is a 20 too big for that size? Glad to know I only need one bowl, that's what takes up the most space due to the heavy, wide bottom. The dollar store bowls are a good idea, instead of splurging on a second exo-terra hide he/she may not fit in.
I've only just started slowly setting up so the pics wouldn't be worth it but I'll post once I have my full set up. I've been trying all the pet stores to find a thermostat to see if i could connect it to my heat pad somehow, but I can't seem to find one. I was going to go to the next best thing and get a rheostat for the UTH along with a thermometer probe on the glass over the UTH, and something to check the substrate temp and atmospheric temp- Like a second thermometer.
Other than that, I want a climbing branch, cypress substrate, hydrogemeter, shelf paper on the back and sides, and probably a night light on a timer. Once I have that much done I'll try to fine tune the humidity and temp before placing the snake.

[TheSnakeGuy]

Floor space isn't as important as having a manageable thermal gradient. This is my 20 gal long that's been divided in half. Each half has 2 great hides and a perfect 90 warm/80 cool gradient. Each of the ball pythons are over 2 feet long, and fit very well with room to grow more. They love to come out at night and climb around.

[Pythonfriend]

if the hides are the right size, enclosures cannot be too big. Never worry about a too big enclosure size if you provide nice hides and the right husbandry.

About the enclosure size.... in Germany we actually have laws governing minimum size for enclosures for python regius, to condense them all down into one sentence.... There should be a climbing option for the snake, and (if you take out everything) the body length of the snake should not be larger than the diagonal of the ground surface. But then, if you follow that to the letter, your snake has a 5 star enclosure, these laws are a bit over the top and dont really allow for rack systems. Because of the laws breeders use modular terrariums, basically huge plastic bricks that can be stacked, with a glass front and heating, equipped with two appropriate hides and climbing opportunities. Its BP paradise, but makes keeping several and/or breeding them really tough.

Anyway, a BP can be happy if temperature and humidity are right, if the feeding shedule is good, they dont need much space. But more space and more hiding places are a positive if done right.


EDIT: the enclosure directly in the post above mine.... How the heck do you keep the humidity up in that? Sorry, it just looks very dry. Did you soak the terracotta flowerpot things by submerging them in water? You must soak them once before use, otherwise they suck up moisture like crazy.

[maegalcarwen]

Hi!

TheSnakeGuy, i love those little pots! How did you cut the holes on it?

My girl is in a 50x30x20 plastic tub, temp on the warm side is 31C, on the cool side it is usually 22-25C ( I have the thermostat on the hot end, because the cool side never gets cooler than room temp.). She is on newspaper, she has a water dish. Humidity ranges between 40-60%, 56% in average. I have her since a month, she didn't shed yet. She does not have a hide, where I got her from she didn't have it either. I know a lot of people who are pro, and also who are a contra, but it seems to be working for me, she is nice and tame.

Is this husbandry correct, or should I change anything? I choose this enclosure on finance-based reasons, but maybe in the future I'll get her a viv.
Is there any difference between the behavior/attitude of tub/viv snakes?

Thanks in advance.

[Inarikins]

I would definitely get her a couple of hides. The breeder no doubt kept her in a rack system and possible even in a small (6-qt) tub, where a hide isn't necessary just because they're basically already in a hide. You don't have to spend a lot of money on hides, anything about the size of your snake and more flat than tall will work.

I don't know what shipping will be like, or if you can find somebody to buy from locally, but http://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes are pretty much considered some of the best hides around. Easy to clean, and snakes seem to love them.

[kitedemon]

I would suggest that your cool end temps are quite cool I would not want to see cooler than 23 for very long. The hot spot is fine for a baby but as an adult a extra degree would be better.

Very few would suggest no hide unless you are speaking of a rack that basically Is a hide. I would suggest two hides should be used in an exposed enclosure.


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[kitedemon]

Op hides and such count as floor space so not to worry. I use the length of the enclosure added to the width should be around the snakes length. For example a 20 x 30 inch enclosure would easily hold 4 - 4.5 foot snake but is a bit small for bigger. Not far off the diagonal posted earlier. That is actually quite good and easy.


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