Possible NEW dark morph!

[Wobbilly5]

Many folks have spend MUCH more on unproven traits over the years. In 2011, I paid $8000 for one unproven snake and compared to some older mutations that's cheap these days. And I still spend on unproven traits. Risk vs reward sometimes. Typically the higher the risk the higher the potential reward. Africa has played this game for a while now, so you can thank all the breeders who have spent money on unproven specials to have so much neat stuff to work with these days.

That being said, I don't see this as a $5000 pickup based on my understanding of BPs looking identical to this and not proving. Also, if it proves genetic, I'm not even sure it would necessarily draw that kind of money. It doesn't look dynamic enough... of course, that could all change with combos if it were genetic. However, its not $5000 in my eyes.

I like to price unproven stuff based on likelihood to be genetic, appearance, and originality on a scale/pricing system that I've created to help me price import prospects. I would price him at $1500-$2000 or so. Originality is pretty high on my list because love working with original looking animals. Very hard to buy them away from me, so that typically is how pricing can get difficult for me. Of course this would be knowing he was in fact an import and not CB.

Thanks for the great reply. He thinks that it's likely genetic because the belly is clear and has fairly definitive lines separating the belly and the side pattern. He believes that most codominant mutations have that characteristic.

Let's pretend he DOES prove out to be genetic....codominant. How would you see his offspring being priced the first few years? And what if he somehow turns out to be a super? That would make him less valuable? or more valuable? Also, wouldn't his originality be high based on other dark morphs that are genetic thus far?

Thanks.
Kyle

[paulh]

Let's pretend he DOES prove out to be genetic....codominant. How would you see his offspring being priced the first few years? And what if he somehow turns out to be a super? That would make him less valuable? or more valuable? Also, wouldn't his originality be high based on other dark morphs that are genetic thus far?

Thanks.
Kyle

I'm not going to get into pricing. It is my weakest subject.

Look at the snake's parents. If both look normal, then the dark snake is either heterozygous for a dominant dark gene or heterozygous for a codominant dark gene. Or the dark snake is homozygous for a recessive mutant gene.

Homozygous = the two genes in the gene pair are the same.
Heterozygous = the two genes in the gene pair are NOT the same. In this case the two genes would be a dark mutant gene and a normal gene.

I am using normal to mean the parents look the way they are expected to look from their known genetic make up. If nothing is known about their genetic make up then they look like the majority of ball pythons in the wild.

If the two parents look normal, then the odds of the mutant gene being codominant to the normal gene and the dark snake being a super are astronomical against. Because if both parents look the way they are expected to look, then both parents would have to have the same spontaneous mutation take place. And then a sperm with that mutant gene would have to fertilize an egg with that mutant gene. Assuming the odds of that mutation as 1 in a thousand, the odds of a super would be something like 4 million to 1 against. Not odds I would bet the farm on.

Also look at the dark snake's brothers and sisters. If they look normal, then the odds against that dark snake being a super get higher.

I always recommend that a new mutant gene be assumed to be recessive to the corresponding normal gene. Then it is no disappointment to need two generations to get more. And it is a nice surprise if the mutant is a dominant or codominant gene.

[RoseyReps]

A friend of mine showed me this male that was imported last July.

Look at the snake's parents. If both look normal, then the dark snake is either heterozygous for a dominant dark gene or heterozygous for a codominant dark gene. Or the dark snake is homozygous for a recessive mutant gene.

Homozygous = the two genes in the gene pair are the same.
Heterozygous = the two genes in the gene pair are NOT the same. In this case the two genes would be a dark mutant gene and a normal gene.

I am using normal to mean the parents look the way they are expected to look from their known genetic make up. If nothing is known about their genetic make up then they look like the majority of ball pythons in the wild.

If the two parents look normal, then the odds of the mutant gene being codominant to the normal gene and the dark snake being a super are astronomical against. Because if both parents look the way they are expected to look, then both parents would have to have the same spontaneous mutation take place. And then a sperm with that mutant gene would have to fertilize an egg with that mutant gene. Assuming the odds of that mutation as 1 in a thousand, the odds of a super would be something like 4 million to 1 against. Not odds I would bet the farm on.

Also look at the dark snake's brothers and sisters. If they look normal, then the odds against that dark snake being a super get higher.

I always recommend that a new mutant gene be assumed to be recessive to the corresponding normal gene. Then it is no disappointment to need two generations to get more. And it is a nice surprise if the mutant is a dominant or codominant gene.

Just throwing that out there Paul But good write up!

[paulh]

Look at the snake's parents.

I always recommend that a new mutant gene be assumed to be recessive to the corresponding normal gene. Then it is no disappointment to need two generations to get more. And it is a nice surprise if the mutant is a dominant or codominant gene.

Oops. I missed the part in the original post that the dark snake was imported. No parents to look at. Thanks, RoseyReps.

I stick by the recommendation in the quote.

[RoseyReps]

I agree! It was a good write up, just the parent comparison wouldn't work Solid advice imo.