Thinkin about breeding feeders!

[Trouser]

Hi all,
At the moment I have seven ball pythons ranging in size from 110 grams to 1400 grams. So here are my few questions. Number one should I breed feeders for this many or wait until I have a bigger collection? Second how hard is breeding rats? I have owned a few pet rats so husbandry is no problem. Also ASF's or normal rats? Thanks for any comments.

[MootWorm]

Hi all,
At the moment I have seven ball pythons ranging in size from 110 grams to 1400 grams. So here are my few questions. Number one should I breed feeders for this many or wait until I have a bigger collection? Second how hard is breeding rats? I have owned a few pet rats so husbandry is no problem. Also ASF's or normal rats? Thanks for any comments.

Hey there,
I can't tell you as to whether or not you should breed your own, I only have one ball(for now!) and I've just recently started breeding ASF. Mostly it's for my own enjoyment since I won't start breeding balls for a few years, and I needed to breed something lol. I can definitely say that if you can provide proper husbandry, you've got breeding in the bag. I've only got a 1.2 colony of ASF, and I've had 3 litters since 2/5. Basically feed, water and change litter once a week and you're good to go. I also handle mine daily, but it's completely unnecessary if you're solely breeding for food. I picked up my first pair of normal rats today, so we'll see how that goes

[hypnotixdmp]

Hey, I have a collection of 10 different snakes, some around 150g+ and some around 500g all the way up to a 4000g boa. I breed 2 sets of 1.3, 2.6 all together and its really good for younger snakes and mid aged with that many, but the bigger ones get some f/t I get from a buddy all the time at no cost. Its really simple to keep them and the best way I've found so far is a small rack with 5 levels. This allows you to use a few other tubs for grow up or after birth recovery!! I change the bedding once a week, this includes washing the tubs as well. With a rack you can just buy big bags of food in bulk and just set the food on top of the screen so you don't have to open the tub at all!!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Trouser]

Thanks for the info y'all! So for the amount of snakes I have would a 1:3 colony be suitable?

[MrLang]

1 female per snake is a good rule I think. I have 4 females now and will have enough for 6 snakes if they produce 12 per litter. 12 per litter is kind of high though. I would not count on that consistently. I'm gonna hold back 2 females and keep mine at 1 per.

[sorraia]

Hi all,
At the moment I have seven ball pythons ranging in size from 110 grams to 1400 grams. So here are my few questions. Number one should I breed feeders for this many or wait until I have a bigger collection? Second how hard is breeding rats? I have owned a few pet rats so husbandry is no problem. Also ASF's or normal rats? Thanks for any comments.

Whether or not you choose to breed your own feeders is your decision entirely. I didn't plan on it. I bred pet rats for 10 years, stopped when I got pregnant, and didn't really plan to go back to it so soon. I was very content feeding my snakes f/t, and had a good f/t supply. THEN that supply became more and more unreliable. It is now to the point where I have had to make a choice:
1) just hold out and hope the supply becomes consistent and reliable again, and risk my snakes going hungry (not acceptable)
2) order frozen online (too expensive unless I purchase a quantity I cannot store)
3) buy live and kill it myself (more expensive than frozen, for my current collection would cost a minimum of $24 a week, more than quadruple what I was spending on frozen!)
4) breed my own (pay for the cost of housing/feeding them, kill them myself, but also know how they were raised and have some control over that supply)

I ultimately decided on #4, even though I’m only feeding 8 pythons. I bred and raised pets for years, so husbandry is no problem. Breeding rats is NOT difficult, for me it is just an adjustment between breeding strictly pets to breeding for food (major differences: longevity of the feeders isn't as important since most of them will be dead before 6 months of age, quantity is more important for feeders than pets, I consider temperament equally important for each (if a feeder bites me or fights with the other rats, it will be culled), and other selections (confirmation, color, markings) are important for pets but neutral for feeders (snake isn’t going to care if the rat is this color or that or can win a beauty pageant…).

The most difficult part about breeding rats, in my opinion, is the husbandry: feeding, cleaning, etc, and there are ways to get a system down that cuts back on that work. Second hardest part is going to be waiting for them to grow up to size. The hardest part (for me) about them being feeders is the killing part. I don’t like it, but it is part of life, something must always die for another to live (whether it be the rat dying to feed the snake, the chicken dying to feed my dog, or the cow dying to feed me). It just makes it more up close and personal to have to do it yourself.

Whether you breed ASF or Norway (regular) rats is another personal choice, but a few things to think about when making that choice:
1) I hear (no personal experience) ASF are not as friendly and easy going as Norway rats, and more apt to bite.
2) I hear (again no personal experience) ASF smell less than Norway rats (keep in mind Norway rats don’t smell that much as long as you keep them clean).
3) ASF aren’t legal in all states (not legal in California where I live).
4) If you plan to breed and sell your pythons, you may limit your clientele if your snakes are hooked on ASF (I haven’t personally experienced it yet, but have heard some ball pythons will only eat one type of food, if your snakes only eat ASF someone like me who has no access to ASF won’t be able to purchase that snake). Likewise feeding them Norway rats could potentially limit your clientele too, but to a lesser extent (some people don’t have regular access to Norway rats and have to feed mice instead).

[Kaorte]

I have 3 colonies of ASF to feed my collection. I supplement with f/t when I need to.

ASFs are nice because they can do back to back litters and have very big litters (between 10-20 per litter!). They have a very low odor compared to mice and rats and conveniently pee in a corner!

I would say the only down side is that they take forever to grow to a good size. After a month they are a good size for hatchlings under 200g, but after that you have to let them grow quite a bit. Initially, the males grow faster than the females, but a retired breeder female is going to be the biggest around 150g. This is a good size for most adult Bps, but it takes a few months to get to that size.

As for this whole myth about snakes getting hooked on ASF, I really think this has more to do with ball pythons being picky feeders in general, not the prey item. There are going to be some Bps that will decide they only want to eat a certain type of feeder, but down the line they might change their mind. Their preferences are always changing.

If you just need to feed a small collection, I'd say breeding ASF isn't a bad idea. Since I started breeding I've saved hundreds on f/t feeders, and a lot of time because I don't need to thaw rodents or throw away uneaten ones. I much prefer live feeding. So much more efficient in my opinion.

[Trouser]

Thanks again everyone for the info!!! I am moving into a house next month and I will be setting up two colonies. Can't wait! I'm probably gonna do two 5 tub racks. Should suffice until I get more snakes

[Trouser]

So here's a rough sketch of my idea.
Probably gonna have three sets of 1:3 colonies. Three racks breed>birth>rest>growouts. Another question tho. Should I separate females during the birth/wean process, or is it ok to leave them together? Thanks again for all the info people!

[RestlessRobie]

I would breed your own if you want to it is rather fun to watch what you get from breeding rats. I have 2 males (one was to cute to feed) and 7 females I produce plenty of rats to feed my collection of 5 snakes and have extras to sell to a few friends ETC. At the end of the month my snakes are usually eating for free or at the most very little out of pocket expense. One word of advice make room for at least one if not two birthing/weaning tubs because the girls will at some point all drop a litter at the same time.