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I don't think you can tell carmel lines apart by just looking a them, if you didn't know the lines before then who knows what lines they are? Just like any morph there can be color variances, poor examples, great examples;lighter & darker ones in the same morph?
Ultramels aren't compatable with the regular carmel so it couldn't be that.
Last edited by Meltdown Morphs; 02-24-2013 at 02:16 PM.
0.1 GHI Mojave
0.1 Super special h scaleless
0.1 Desert ghost
1.0 WC Dinker
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I'm aware that they are not compatible and also that there are different grades. What I am curious about is the fact that there are clearly 2 that look like the left and 4 that look like the right. Also there are 2 normals in the clutch from from caramel to caramel which should not be possible. Also the father fathered another caramel to caramel clutch this year which came out all hets which should not be possible. The mother of the all her clutch may have been retained spe from a previous breeding but for the second mother to pop out hets from the same male is weird. The male looks like a normal caramel.....
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Re: What line of caramel are these???
that normal-looking hets show up is indeed bizarre.
apart from that, you might have mixed up two lines. like, for example, when producing blue-eye lucys, you can easily mix up lesser, butter, het russo, mystic. almost all of these super-forms or 2-gene-combos look almost identical.
maybe there is line A and line B, and your male is homozygous line A, and your female is heterozygous line A and line B. of course both lines sit on the same locus & chromosome. So the offspring would be: 50% homozygous line A (like dad) and 50% Het line A and het line B (like mom).
But i cannot explain the normal-looking ones, really not. you dont get normals when breeding toffino to albino, or toffee to albino, or toffino to toffino. You dont get normals when you breed mystic potion to super mystic or mystic potion to mystic potion. All offspring should be caramel-like looking 2-gene combos of the two lines at work.
Could you add pictures of the normal-looking ones and the parents? (or maybe put them all in one family-picture?)
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It's a possibility that one of the parents is visually a different line, but is het for the same line as the other parent. If we're throwing out the possibility of retained sperm, that would explain the normal hets since it would be from a het x visual paring.
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Where did your male come from? Two not particularly likely scenarios I can think of:
1. Your male is an ultramel, maybe het caramel also. Maybe some of the babies are ultramels, some caramels, and perhaps some both.
2. Your male is a chimera with some of his reproductive organs from a het or normal sibling. Maybe you also have the hypo gene on one side or the other and the lighter caramels are het hypos. Or for all I know maybe ultamel is like hypo and the hets are often brighter so maybe the light ones are the caramels that got the het ultramel gene from mom.
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Ps the possibility of retained sperm only applies to mother 1. Mother 2 was jus a pet and the only snake the guy had which he had as a baby. So sperm retention for her is very very very unlikely...
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The male was bought in a collection sale I picked up. Not much is known about any of these animals. There are many possibilities for what is going on I'm just hoping that someone can look at these animals and say hey that looks just like the ...... Line I'm working with and that would explain....... Lol which probably won't happen. If they were het ultramel is there anyone that could look at the babies and say yes.... Thats an ultramel..... Or hey that's a crider, or bell.
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this is enigmatic. I hope someone can figure it out, ill keep watching this thread.
here is what i would do: keep them all, except for the hets, buy a female caramel (maybe also a male) with paperwork from a known breeder and a known line and just keep breeding them and eventually start your own line once you figured out whats going on ^^
or just keep breeding the male to the two females and see what happens next year. Maybe next year you will get two clutches of caramels and no normal-looking hets, mother 1 might be a case of retained sperm. mother 2 i dont know.
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