Proof on the Spider gene. OWAL take a look

[Pythonfriend]

after reading the first few pages and the last few pages, my opinion about the spider gene doesnt change at all.


the mechanism is simple: heterozygous spiders are fine, and homozygous spiders dont exist because the homozygous spider is lethal.

since the original poster didnt mention the amount of slugs, i still see two options:

1.) Homozygous spider is very deadly, so that the embryo dies so fast that the mother snake produces a slug instead of a full-sized egg.

2.) Homozygous spider is even more deadly, so that the fertilized zygote cannot even split once, or something prevents the egg from forming, and the mother snake doesnt even produce a slug. I consider it remotely possible that the female simply responds by producing another egg, that females just fill their bellies with eggs and stop when they have as many eggs growing as they can handle. But i think a 25% drop in fertility is more likely.


and the consequences for breeding? i dont know, im not a catholic, it doesnt bother me when embryos or zygotes that are less sentient than a tomato die. So the only reason to avoid breeding spider to spider would be that possible (not proven out) 25% drop in fertility.

in my opinion the wobble is the bigger issue.

[gsarchie]

Not sure if it's the same tattlife2001... http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/jus...re-theifs.html

I can't imagine that it is anyone different. Good detective work!

[Rob]

Why would someone go on a bunch of different forums and pretend to have a warehouse of snakes?
If its a troll it's a pretty lame one.

[Peoples]

wow I didn't know your numbers were so extensive, so if im reading it correctly, every single one of the 153 spider offspring from the spider x spider pairing was bred to see if they were homozygous? Also I saw a thread that claimed to produce an all white snake that died after hatching from a spider x spider pairing, you never saw anything like this?

the "normal" making spiders is quite interesting also, few explanations that come to mind right away. (can we get a picture of her for the heck of it?)
simple one would be she is a spider that pattern resembles normalish quailties (im sure you thought of it already),
she could be a paradox, having spider reproductive organs,
she is a spider, but also has a recessive trait that dominants over it, making her look normal
epigenetics is at play and the expression on the spider gene is turned down, or even off.

Sounds like he has a Chimera.... Scenario, 2 embryo in an egg developing into one.... 1 normal / 1 Spider dna merging to produce a normal looking snake which will produce spider offspring...

[T&C Exotics]

I would like to start this out by saying that I will not be going in any order and most of this will not be easy to follow. I am sorry to everyone here for this thread. I can not and will not make excuses for anything that I did. I will give a back story as to myself at the time of this thread starting and leading up to it as well as a few other things. I had started the breedings for the spider gene. It was a group of 2.5 spiders. I wanted to know exactly what was going on. They were purchased back in early 2011 and were bred in 2012. That is as far as it ever got. I do not remember what was produced from the breedings to be honest. Shortly after those eggs hatched I made this thread. The numbers I posted were in a way real numbers, they were compiled from multiple people who had done spider x spider breedings but they were not my results. Shortly after I made the post my life took a major twist and it resulted in me having a nervous breakdown. I was also suffering from drug abuse. I checked myself in to a hospital and stayed for 90 days. After I was released I continued counseling and am still doing so today. Right now I do not have any snakes due to a recent move cross country. The second person that posted on this thread speaking for me stating that I had died was my brother whom I am currently staying with, I do not know why he posted or what his intentions were in posting and I apologize for that as well. The link that is provided in this thread is not from me so please do not group me with that person. As of today I am mentally stable and drug free. I do plan on getting in to snakes again and I hope to one day prove what is going on with the spider gene as well as the pinstripe and woma, not to be confused with hg woma. If I am able to do any of those then I will make a thread here and post pictures all along the way so there are no doubts at all as to what exactly happens with them. Again I am sorry for everything and for dragging this out. I know I will not be welconed back with open arms and pretty much everyone will question pretty much anything that I happen to post here. I hope that over time I will be able to regain trust and be a part of this wonderful community that is actually helping instead of hindering. Thank you for your time in reading this last post. If I am not welcome here any Admin can feel free to let me know and I will delete my account and will not return but I hope it does not come to that.

[interloc]

Well I think at this point, the only thing to say is apology accepted and I think I can speak for many of us here and say, great job for turning your life around! I know there are a few people here who use ball pythons as sort of a stress reliever of sorts. Stay on the path it sounds like your on and you will be just fine.

Also cool idea on trying to prove what's up with those genes. Not many people would take on that responsibility. Good luck with future endeavours and welcome back.

[T&C Exotics]

Thank you. I figure since I made this whole mess I should at least do it and follow through and see what happens.

[BlueMoonExotics]

Back from the dead I see. Just kidding.... I'm kidding that wasn't funny but I had to. I'm sure that it took a lot for you to come and admit that you had lied, especially after you were in it so deep. If you do manage to earn some trust back, I hope you learned your lesson and don't throw it away so easily over something so silly. Your reputation is everything in a community like this.

[JLC]

If I am not welcome here any Admin can feel free to let me know and I will delete my account and will not return but I hope it does not come to that.

Of course you're still welcomed here. You're making a conscious, hard-working, determined effort to change what you know has been wrong in your life. That is to be admired and appreciated. Trust and reputation take time to rebuild, but so long as you continue on this path, there's absolutely no reason why it can't be done, and often times even stronger than before.

I wish you all the best in your journey and hope that someday we can follow a serious study of the spider gene with you.

[Freakie_frog]

after reading the first few pages and the last few pages, my opinion about the spider gene doesn't change at all.


the mechanism is simple: heterozygous spiders are fine, and homozygous spiders don't exist because the homozygous spider is lethal.

since the original poster didn't mention the amount of slugs, i still see two options:

1.) Homozygous spider is very deadly, so that the embryo dies so fast that the mother snake produces a slug instead of a full-sized egg.

2.) Homozygous spider is even more deadly, so that the fertilized zygote cannot even split once, or something prevents the egg from forming, and the mother snake doesn't even produce a slug. I consider it remotely possible that the female simply responds by producing another egg, that females just fill their bellies with eggs and stop when they have as many eggs growing as they can handle. But i think a 25% drop in fertility is more likely.

Let me just throw this out there. slugs were never at any point fertile. Fertilization happens when the snake ovulates or shortly after. So slug never saw genetic material from either parent. The more likely idea is that infertile eggs were "Super spiders" didn't make it past the first cellular division. However because we don't truly understand reptile DNA and the associated mutations of it we wont be able to say for sure that the morphs are determined at the time of the first division or even later on. it's more likely that the mutation kicks in later in the embryo's development since its things like pigment and what not that are effected. With all of that said I've long said that it's naive to think that the only thing these mutations effect physiologically is skin pigment, We see kinking, cleft jaws, small eye's wobble's, duck bills ect ect. All of those this are changes to the anatomy of the animal.

Still so much to learn and discover