Not so healthy new snake

[Marla]

Hi everyone! I've been reading these forums for a few days and gotten lots of good input. I thought it was time to ask for specific advice on my snake. First off, I've had ball pythons before, one adult and two juvenile, for a combined 3-4 years of experience. The adult we had to give away when we moved several years back, and the two juveniles got out when we were on vacation and our pet sitter didn't secure the cage properly. We searched for weeks and never found them.

Anyhow, I now have a new snake, tentatively named "Snyder" for its propensity for twisting itself into a perfect pretzel. It is a juvenile ball python and only about 22" long.

My SO went and bought it (knowing that it would be a welcome gift) from a petstore with a 15-day return policy two weeks before my birthday. I got the snake on my birthday (12/17) and saw immediately that it was dehydrated and hadn't had a proper shed the last time it shed. It wasn't until two days later that I saw that it was covered in mites. It's also the most lethargic snake I've had, rarely flicking with its tongue except in the presence of prey, and only a few times trying to explore its surroundings when held.

During the two weeks that Snyder was being kept at a friend's house before my birthday, they fed it one F/T mouse, a pinky, which is good because it ate and because it ate F/T, but not so good because at 22" it should have been eating at least one hopper, or a small adult. A few days after getting Snyder, I tried feeding it a F/T small adult and it started to take it but apparently panicked over the size and rejected the mouse. We waited another four days or so, and tried again with an F/T adult, but Snyder would only sniff and guard the mouse and made no move to take it. We let another five days or so pass then tried to feed Snyder F/T pinkies, and again the result was sniffing and guarding, but no striking. We warmed all the mice to above room temp and have tried feeding in light and in dark and blocking the view of the habitat.

In the meantime, through thorough cleaning of the cage and everything in it with hot soapy water and mite treatment (thoroughly rinsed to avoid getting the snake sick from the cure), removal of the reptile carpet substrate and replacement with newspaper, and soaking the snake in slightly soapy tepid water, it looks like I've just about gotten rid of the mites and rehydrated the snake, so it should be feeling better.

The habitat is about 87F on the warm end (low end of the spectrum I know) and 77F on the cool end. There's a hide and water at each end and the humidity is about 75%. In the middle is a heat rock wrapped in two layers of towel under the newspaper because I haven't found my old heat pad -- I plan to replace it with a UTH ASAP. It's an aquarium (24x12x12) with a homemade wood and metal screen top, half-covered, currently lit with a 100W incandescent in a reflector sitting on top of the mesh so the snake can't burn itself on the bulb. One hide is plastic, the other stone, and each has both rough and smooth surfaces for comfort and shedding. One water dish is shallow rough stone that Snyder like to drape through, the other is a plastic dish big enough to soak in entirely if it wants.

I went yesterday to a pet store to try to buy a live fuzzy or hopper to try to get it to eat, and encountered an employee with a very superior attitude. He suggested spraying the snake and its habitat down with mite treatment and not rinsing either one, insisted that it didn't need hiding spots or water at both ends of the habitat, told me 14 hours of light was far too much, told me there was no point in feeding F/T, and had an uncovered heat rock and no hides in his own ball python habitat that I could see. Based on all that, I question everything he had to say.

Does anyone have any further suggestions regarding habitat, the mites, or getting Snyder to eat? Is my idea of getting live prey a good one or just likely to turn it off of F/T? I know it's not unusual for balls to go weeks or months without eating, and it is winter, but I'm concerned because the snake is still so young and it's not been very cold here (and certainly not inside). I'm sorry about the super-long first post, but I thought I'd try to give all the background info I could in case it would be helpful. Thanks for your help!

[emroul]

Well, first off, welcome to the forums.

Ok, lets see.. How long have you had the ball python? How many days have you given it to rest completely without interruptions, and how many days inbetween attempted feedings? It sounds like this is a case of stress. I'm sure you are not sure if the snake is CB or an import, no matter what the people at the pet store tell you. And right off the bat, coming from a petstore, I am thinking it is probably at least CH, if not WC. So, if you can, try to get it to a vet to check for internal parasites, or if you know the dosage, do it yourself with some Panacur and Flagyl.

As with the mites, what did you use to get rid of them? I use Black Knight spray, and it has yet to fail me. I've also heard Prevent-a-mite was a good one, but I have never used it myself. They are both safe to spray and leave in the cage (even with the snake inside the cage, as well) without washing out. About 2 weeks after the first spraying, I spray again (just to be sure to get all the unhit eggs).

Pinkies are WAY to small for any ball python to be considered a meal; and live or freshkilled is the best thing to do if they are reluctant to take f/t. The most important thing is to get it to eat. But again, if it has only been a couple weeks since you received her, I would recommend you leave her be for about 2 weeks without picking her up or anything. Then try a live adult mouse. If she's hungry, she'll eat. And that should give her enough time to get "un-stressed".

It sounds like you are knowledgable about snakes, so good luck, and I hope I've helped some.
-Jennifer

[Marla]

Thanks, Jennifer!

I am somewhat knowledgeable about ball pythons, but I've never had to deal with mites before and never had one this small that wouldn't eat (the adult would go a couple of months sometimes and was a picky eater anyway -- only live white mice, but 4 or 5 per meal). I figured with all the combined experience in here, y'all would know more than I do what to do.

I got the snake 12/17, but like I said, it was purchased two weeks before that as a gift. I don't know if it's WC, CB, CH, or what (though I agree, CB isn't likely), and haven't had it sexed yet (though there is an employee at a pet store close by who has a couple dozen snakes at home and she said she'd sex it for me after the mites are completely definitely gone). It does look much better now, with no adult mites visible and the skin no longer hanging so loose, so I've been doing something right.

I've been giving 4-5 days between feeding attempts, as I'd really like it to eat, but don't want to stress it more by trying too often. I wasn't sure what interval would be good. It did try to take the adult mouse but rejected it after she got it about 1/3rd in, and that's why I wanted to try to find a hopper, in case it rejected the (small) adult because she felt it was too big. I figured any food is better than no food and we can always move back to adults or to hopper rats when she's had a meal or three.

With the mites, I used Ultra-Care, which was the only thing the pet store had. It's for bird mites, but the employee with all the snakes said she'd use it if she couldn't find what she usually uses, which is something hunters use for ticks, I don't remember the name. Apparently Provent-a-mite originally was packaged for bird mites, too, so I figured I'd try it but was worried about the fumes even though it said it was safe to leave it on birds. I don't have the option of ordering anything online right now, and the nearest rep show I've been able to find is on 1/17, and I didn't want to just wait.

Thanks for your help.

[RPlank]

I'm with Jennifer on the probable stress diagnosis. IF there are no other underlying health issues (which a herp vet needs to check for) I say leave it alone for two weeks--totally alone--and then try and feed it a live crawler rat or hopper mouse at night. Bump the warm end temps up ASAP to the low 90's, and keep all the hides and water dishes you have set up.
Take what the pet store employee told you with a BAG of salt (not just a grain!).
I guess if the mites are gone, and your snake didn't react negatively to the treatment, good enough. I would be leery of using a treatment that wasn't intended for snakes, however.
You may want to lower the humidity a tad, to around 50%-60%.
Is the incandescent lamp on 24/7? If so, that could cause significant stress.
Good luck, you are doing ok so far! Go back to the pet store and punch that ignoramus in the nose! (Just kidding!)

[Marla]

I will be going out tomorrow to find a UTH or two and should be able to bump up the warm end temps then. Is air temp or floor temp more important to gauge? I'll also be looking for better monitoring equipment for heat and humity. I'll have a better way to acurately gauge and adjust humidity then. The incandescent lamp is on approximately 13-15 hours a day -- I definitely wouldn't leave it on 24/7.

I'm assuming you're talking about the pet store employee that I described second, not the one who told me she'd sex the snake after the mites were gone. He seemed like a jacka## knowitall to me, and contradicted a lot of what I've been reading, here and elsewhere. If he didn't happen to work at one of the best local sources for live food, I might have told him off, but in case I need it, I want to be welcome there.

As far as the mite treatment, it seems to have gone well so far, and Snyder seems to be acting a little perkier this evening than s/he has been. S/he isn't even head-shy (I didn't try that on purpose) and has never hissed or drawn back so far. I've only seen one adult mite in the last several days (they were visible all over when I first got her), but I know I have to get the eggs as well to be sure they're clear.

If I can find where the kids put my digital camera, I'll take a pic or two and send it up. It might be a couple of days, though.

Thanks for the help!

[emroul]

No prob, glad we could help some. Can't wait to see pics, and glad to hear Snyder is slowly recooperating

Keep us updated.
Jennifer

[Marla]

Thanks, Jennifer. Can you tell me whether air or surface temp is more important to measure so that I'll set that up properly?

[Andariel]

I don't know which is more critical so i split the difference. My temperature and humidity guages are about 1 1/2 inches off the substrate so that i'tll read the air/humidity at snake level (lol sorry.. just a pun... not at ground level or sea level) which makes sense to me that it'd be more important than what the air temperature is at the top of the tank.

Jennifer, and ideas?

-Chris

[emroul]

Chris hit it on the nose. Both are very important. If you overlook the "snake" level temp, lol, it could reach 100 degrees or more and you'd never know it. If you are unable to do any online ordering, can you make it to a petstore close by you? You should really pick up a rheostat or thermostat, so you don't have to worry about temps exceeding what you prefer. You can also get a timer to put the rheostat on.

Good luck.
Jennifer

[Marla]

Thanks. I now have the only hygrometer in the store in the tank and humidity is at 48% currently. I also replaced the (wrapped) heat rock with a UTH and added a thermometer for the other end and a temp strip for the middle (all within 3" of tank bottom, depending on position of other items). I bought a red bulb to use for light and heat, but I have to go back to the incandescent because it doesn't provide enough light for me to read the gauges.

Best of all, I bought a live hopper and put Snyder in a translucent box with a lid with just the hopper and after ignoring it for 20 minutes or so, s/he grabbed a leg and coiled. S/he isn't very efficient (probably because of only eating F/T previously, I'd guess) and has been working on constricting it for over half an hour. I think the squeaks have finally stopped, though, so I'm hoping the swallowing will begin soon.