Noob breeder looking for some advice

[Darkbird]

Ok, so you all don't immediately jump me, I have been keeping reptiles for almost 20 years, yes I have time and money to blow on this, have given it tons of thought, and reasearch, more thought more reasearch, more reasearch(you get the idea). I'm not looking to get rich or even break even, just want the experience and to breed toward some cool morphs that would take me forever to afford. And yes I don't mind waiting a few years to get them. Now on to the immediate issues at hand.

First thing is that i have reached a caging dilemma. In short I'm outta room, and at the last show I attended two different people had some nice ARS 7030 racks for sale, one for 1800 and two for 1500. One of those people also had a 7010 available for 750. First thing i need to know is if this is a good price on any of these for used.

Second, unless i get a bunch of adults somewhere, I will not start breeding until next season, and only on a limited basis then. I,m kinda wondering if getting one of these racks is overkill for someone just starting out, as that money could be used to get more of the base morphs for the things I want to make. Just thinking I might be better off building my own racks like I was going to before spotting these, thus leaving more cash for future breeding stock.

Anyway, just looking for some opinions, and wondering if there are any obvious flaws in my current plans. Thanks for any input. Shawn H.

[csagen]

Hey Shawn,

It's nice to hear that you've done your research, and it definitely sounds like you have a plan. Unfortunately I can't comment on the racks that you listed;however, I can say that I built my own rack out of melamine and some heat tape and it has been phenomenal! I was able to do the rack with a Herpstat 1 for right about $250. Ya, it's not the PVC, but personally I think I built it pretty well and it is a 6 slot 41 qt rack and serves the puprose for me. Just like you are thinking, it allowed me to spend some extra money on the snakes I loved!

As for the snakes, you could always look for sub-adults that could potentially be ready for next year. Or just grab a few proven breeder normals to test your system out and have some fun! If you decided to grab some normals, you can grab a nice 2 or 3 gene male and still produce some quality stuff. Personally I think it's the way to start out, especially if your under a budget. You can pick up proven normal femals for anywhere between $150 and $300, just depends on size. I've also seen proven Pastels for about $500-$700 if you wanted to get one of those too. Either way its a great way to get started and have some fun a little earlier. But the sooner you start, the sooner you have to start preparing for babies . Anyways I hope this was helpful. Good luck, keep us posted and HAVE FUN!!

Calder

PS - either youtube some melamine racks or look in the DIY section and you can see lots of people who have built their own.

[sorraia]

I also can't comment on the prices for those racks, but I too made my own. All materials for the rack an the heat tape and thermostat (a VE-300X, might be wrong on the number, working off memory, but it is the "upgraded" 300) came out to about $400. I have 7 slots that can fit 2 tubs side by side, so a total of 14 tubs can fit. Currently only have 6 snakes, so only 3 slots filled.

I may or may not breed in the future, all of my snakes are babies. I did get snakes that would work toward my goal if I did decide to breed them down the line. For now I'm just enjoying them for what they are, watching them grow up, and learning all I can about the genetics behind different morphs, as well as what it takes to breed them. I probably wouldn't be able to breed anything until next year.

[PghBall]

Just was looking at that rack online, 30 tub rack with t-stat, heat panels and power strip are running about $2500 dollars direct from the manufacturer. So as long as they are in good shape and include the t-stat etc, I would say that is not a bad deal. However, I would consider this rack system more for a larger scale breeder than hobby breeder. If you are not planning on a huge collection, making your own rack or looking at some of the other rack systems out there (Animal Plastics, Vision, boaphileplastics, Reptile Basics) before committing to this one may be a better alternative. It all comes down to what your looking to do. Welcome to the sight!

[Darkbird]

Thanks for the responses and the warm welcome. I actually joined the site a couple months or so ago, just been soaking up info since then. Calder, your post is basically what my original plan was anyway, both with the racks and the snakes. Main reason this came up was that I will have more to spend out of my tax return than I expected, but it may not matter in the end as the big racks may well have sold before I get the cash in hand. I'm leaning strongly toward going back to my original plan anyway as I think I would be better off getting some quality animals going and worry about the fancy caging later. Already have 2 designs worked out, one was a melamine rack, another is a setup with the heavy-duty wire shelving. Advantage there is quick build and low cost while giving me an 8 slot rack with a little extra storage space. Downside is no heat retention so has to stay in a warm room, which I do have.

Sorraia, what materials did you use for your rack? Just wondering if you've had any issues with the shelves sagging or if you have center supports between the tubs.

Greg, not sure how you define huge collection, but I already have 8 balls, 3 red tailed boas, 4 corns, a blood, and that doesn't even cover my legged friends. Planning on eventually having more than 20 ball pythons I think. The final number will depend on a lot like whether I get a bunch of normal females and some multi-gene males or I may get fewer females and make them morphs and go straight for the supers( like the super cinnamon I want). Most of the people I know already think I'm insane for having the 16 snakes in the house, can't wait to hear them when that number starts getting close to forty. The wife recently gave me the green light to start planning the boa project as well, but any serious things with those are a couple years away. Sorry, I tend to ramble, lol. In short not only do I already have some racks, more are definitely in my future. Just trying to make the best overall decision to help me grow this project on a very limited budget.

Again, thanks for the input. I'm going to make a separate thread in a few days or so to discuss what I have and get some suggestions on what I should maybe get. Just waiting for my little Cinnamon male to come out of shed and get some fresh pics of everyone.

[Slitherous]

For space-savings a rack system is the only way to go, especially for ball pythons. I live in a one bedroom apartment, and had run out of room for glass tanks, so I had figure out a way to compress it down. A rack system was the obvious answer. I started looking around, got lucky and found a used Vision rack with a couple missing tubs and a couple broken, (also got three of the BP's I now have in the deal). However, replacement tubs are inexpensive and the rack came with heat cables and a Herpstat. I now have a total of 16 tubs, (eight V-70, four V-35, and four baby tubs), all in one rack in a corner of the room, (as opposed to tanks occupying every flat surface in the house). I currently have 5 BP's and 7 leopard geckos in that one rack, and still have 3 of the larger V-70 tubs, and one of the V-35's empty, (as well as the 4 baby tubs.....so far). The entire rack takes up less than a 36"D x 24"W x 80"H area in one corner, (see photo below), and I really wonder how I ever lived without it! I especially love the Herpstat, because like you I was "old school" in my husbandry, and used rheostats and various other methods to control heat, (been in herping since the 60's but was away for awhile). One week using the Herpstat was all it took....how did I ever live without it??
I think the Vision rack system is pretty reasonably priced compared to others, and due to my personal experience with it I can highly recommend it, (http://visionproducts.us/vp12wp/). (And yes I know there are other worthy rack systems out there, but I like what I got!). Once set up and adjusted, all I have to do is feed and clean...heaven!! Taking care of them is much more efficient, and easier to clean/sanitize than it was when I had them scattered all around in different tanks, and that's better for the animals and me both!




If you intend on breeding, I would advise get your caging situated first, then slowly build up your collection. Don't dump all your money on expensive morphs before you get the husbandry end figured out, (IMHO). I can guarantee you this though, once you get a rack system you'll be glad you did, and you will become obsessed with filling it up, (at least that's what happened to me...I'm already contemplating rack #2.....It's called HAP.......Herp Acquisition Disease!).

S

[sorraia]

Sorraia, what materials did you use for your rack? Just wondering if you've had any issues with the shelves sagging or if you have center supports between the tubs.

I used melamine, 5/8" thick (had a choice between that or 3/4", chose the 5/8" because it was cheaper, and not quite as heavy). Bottom shelf is lived with a kick plate so the bottom tub(s) aren't totally on the floor. One side is not quite as deep as the other to allow cords to be placed through the back instead of showing in front. The back of the rack is plywood to make it a tad lighter, but even so it is a HEAVY son of a gun... We put furniture movers on the bottom to make it a little easier to move into place, and in the (hopefully never) off-chance we'd have to move it another time. I put a little channel in the back of the shelf to recess the thermostat probe, attached the heat tape to the shelves, and placed window shims over the heat tape so the tubs wouldn't rub on it. The shelves are attached both to the sides and the back panel. So far so good! No problems with sagging, and heat and humidity has right on target.

[Haddady's RnR]

DIY way cheaper.

[Badgemash]

The ARS racks are very nice, and the prices you quoted seem decent (assuming they come with all of the tubs and t-stat), but they are geared toward the big league breeders. That said, if you're fairly certain about the numbers you're thinking of (20-ish) it may not be a bad idea. There comes a point where you have to balance your DIY skill level against the value of your time spent elsewhere. If you're a skilled builder and it's going to take you 4 hours to build your own, then go for it. This kind of project would take me days, and I wouldn't be surprised if I glued or nailed my hand to the rack, so I would just buy the ARS rack because it's cheaper than going to the hospital to stitch up a nail hole.

[sorraia]

Here's a photo if you are curious. It is a beast, but I'm happy with the result. Not all the tubs had snakes, and not all the shelves have tubs, so you can see how the heat tape is set up too. My husband and I are amateur builders. It did take us days to build, but that's because we didn't really sit down and work on it straight through, just kind of tinkered around a little here and a little there. I'm happy with the results. We are planning to keep our numbers low too.

Oh, and the thermometers on each tub have been altered so they have 3 wired probes (two for temp and 1 for humidity). That way I could keep the actual unit outside of the tub and make a quick check of temperatures without having to open every bin. I don't know if having a thermometer on every tub is considered over kill or not, but I prefer it that way, just in case there are differences (i.e. parts of the heat tape fail, differences between shelves, etc).