I personally can't pick out the difference between a black pastel and cinny. To me they are one in the same. Where as the lesser, Mojave, butter, etc all look different but you get the same super form when crossing any 2. More or less. So really I'm not even sure what I meant by my 1 st question any more lol. But thanks for the explanation/clarification of mystic/phantom. I was not aware that the het red was part of the cinny blk pastel complex. I'll have to check those out. Subtle morphs kick my a$$. The whole color blind thing doesn't make it easy lol.