Why live??

[piedmad]

Hi all, strange first post I know, as you can see I am from the Uk and have just been reading the thread about the ball being bitten by its dinner. This is not a dig or anything but i am just curious as to why you feed live so much. In the UK nearly all of us feed D/f or some fresh kill if fussy, very few feed live and at a last resort. Pretty much most BP's will take D/F and as seen its so much safer for your pride and joys. I have bought balls from the States and Canada and all eat D/F straight away. Thanks

[I-KandyReptiles]

Some are just stubborn. Some find live more convenient.

3/5 of my bps are strict live eaters. I have offered them p/k, mice, rats.

I like feeding live though. Thawed rats smell really bad to me Ahaha

[youbeyouibei]

Convenience and preference of my animals. It would take more time than I have available to thaw rodents and then if/when my animals refuse, I'd be out a food item. With live, they either eat it or don't and if not, that prey animal is saved for the next feeding. Most of my animals prefer live and have yet to convert to f/t, if ever they do.

[STjepkes]

I can only really afford food in bulk atm when buying from my local reptile store so all I really feed is frozen. I would much rather feed live though and when I have the space will definitely be breeding my own rats and primarily feed live. Picky snakes have much stronger feeding responses when it's the real deal and honestly I don't like the idea of feeding your snake such a tainted piece of meat with the whole dead, then frozen, then heated deal. Food also loses quality from being frozen.

[piedmad]

Cheers for your replies guys, over here if you need to feed live you have to breed them yourself which for most is not an option due to space(and smell to be honest) Its so convenient to keep a freezer full. I fully get the wastage part, but thats what Burms are for Can you guys buy live from a pet shop to feed your snakes or is that a no-no like here?

[youbeyouibei]

Cheers for your replies guys, over here if you need to feed live you have to breed them yourself which for most is not an option due to space(and smell to be honest) Its so convenient to keep a freezer full. I fully get the wastage part, but thats what Burms are for Can you guys buy live from a pet shop to feed your snakes or is that a no-no like here?

I breed my own and I agree with you on the space/smell being an issue. I've been to Europe (Spain, England and Holland) and I could see how the space requirements would be an issue over there. Biggest issue for buying live at a pet store is the costs and knowing how the prey items were treated/raised prior to being offered for sale. Even though mine are being fed, I take excellent care of them in terms of their upkeep and their diets, as they are what my snakes are eating, after all. I don't save any money raising my own but I have the peace of mind of knowing how they were raised and what they were fed prior to my feeding them off.

[the_yellow_pony]

I personally feed live on and absolutely as needed basis. I have seen firsthand the damage live can cause in a short amount of time and prefer for my animals health and safety top avoid it. I have several "finicky" eaters that currently refuse to switch and those that refuse get stunned live. Do I like stunning? No. Do I feel it a necessity? Pretty much.

Live (in my opinion of course) should only be used as a last resort option.

@ "I don't have enough time" and "it's not convenient"

For small/medium rats it only takes about an hour, maybe 2 if your tap water isn't hot to thaw them out fully.
1. get bucket
2. fill with x number of rats
3. fill with hot tap water
4. check periodically
5. replace water when too cool
6. feed

I am not sure what people mean when they say it isn't convenient. Having a month or 3 on hand of feeders is much easier than running out to your live supplier every week. When you get down to a few weeks worth, order again.

Bulk buy food is also typically significantly cheaper if you don't breed your own.
Here are my live vs frozen prices if I buy weekly:

Live:
smalls@$3.99 ea x 8
mediums@4.99ea x 10
lg@6.99 ea. x 3
xl@7.99 eac x 3
2 x 3-4lb rabbits ~$10-$14
_______________________
~$146.76 per week

Frozen:
smalls@$1.05ea x 8
mediums@$1.25ea x 10
lg@$2.00ea x3
xl@$2.25 ea x3
rabbits@$3.50ea x2
____________________
~$40.65 per week.

Add in the 20-30 bucks a YEAR it costs to run a small chest freezer(which you can get for about the price of what my weekly LIVE feeders would be), economically(here anyway) there is zero reason not to do f/t.

I understand we all have different space/time/etc and these are just my opinions. I just tend to have strong feelings about live prey for the simple fact that in my novice days I got to see rodent damage. Not too long ago in one of the retic groups I lurk in someone made a poor decision with a feeder(a live flemish giant) and it rip the side of the snake right open. I have not seen whether or not the snake made it or not.

Rats may not "rip them open" so to speak but have you yourself ever taken a rat bite? They take CHUNKS. Mice tend to puncture but a solid rat bite will leave a hole which is an opening for infection/etc.

If you breed your own, there are plenty of DIY chambers for bulk euthanasia to be found online.
My apologies for becoming long winded.

[STjepkes]

I breed my own and I agree with you on the space/smell being an issue. I've been to Europe (Spain, England and Holland) and I could see how the space requirements would be an issue over there. Biggest issue for buying live at a pet store is the costs and knowing how the prey items were treated/raised prior to being offered for sale. Even though mine are being fed, I take excellent care of them in terms of their upkeep and their diets, as they are what my snakes are eating, after all. I don't save any money raising my own but I have the peace of mind of knowing how they were raised and what they were fed prior to my feeding them off.

I completely agree with this idea. I'm really looking forward to being able to breed my own.

[SylverTears]

I personally feed live on and absolutely as needed basis. I have seen firsthand the damage live can cause in a short amount of time and prefer for my animals health and safety top avoid it. I have several "finicky" eaters that currently refuse to switch and those that refuse get stunned live. Do I like stunning? No. Do I feel it a necessity? Pretty much.

Live (in my opinion of course) should only be used as a last resort option.

@ "I don't have enough time" and "it's not convenient"

For small/medium rats it only takes about an hour, maybe 2 if your tap water isn't hot to thaw them out fully.
1. get bucket
2. fill with x number of rats
3. fill with hot tap water
4. check periodically
5. replace water when too cool
6. feed

I am not sure what people mean when they say it isn't convenient. Having a month or 3 on hand of feeders is much easier than running out to your live supplier every week. When you get down to a few weeks worth, order again.

Bulk buy food is also typically significantly cheaper if you don't breed your own.
Here are my live vs frozen prices if I buy weekly:

Live:
smalls@$3.99 ea x 8
mediums@4.99ea x 10
lg@6.99 ea. x 3
xl@7.99 eac x 3
2 x 3-4lb rabbits ~$10-$14
_______________________
~$146.76 per week

Frozen:
smalls@$1.05ea x 8
mediums@$1.25ea x 10
lg@$2.00ea x3
xl@$2.25 ea x3
rabbits@$3.50ea x2
____________________
~$40.65 per week.

Add in the 20-30 bucks a YEAR it costs to run a small chest freezer(which you can get for about the price of what my weekly LIVE feeders would be), economically(here anyway) there is zero reason not to do f/t.

I understand we all have different space/time/etc and these are just my opinions. I just tend to have strong feelings about live prey for the simple fact that in my novice days I got to see rodent damage. Not too long ago in one of the retic groups I lurk in someone made a poor decision with a feeder(a live flemish giant) and it rip the side of the snake right open. I have not seen whether or not the snake made it or not.

Rats may not "rip them open" so to speak but have you yourself ever taken a rat bite? They take CHUNKS. Mice tend to puncture but a solid rat bite will leave a hole which is an opening for infection/etc.

If you breed your own, there are plenty of DIY chambers for bulk euthanasia to be found online.
My apologies for becoming long winded.

x2

I once had to feed live to a couple of my snakes because THEY WOULDN'T take frozen thawed no matter how hard I tried. I brought home a live adult mouse and three live fuzzies and they were in separate cartons. Long story short, went to bed and woke up and saw the cartons all chewed up and the fuzzies were on the the adult. One was dead (organs everywhere) and the other had a blody gash in the side
And one was gone (?) I agree frozen food much more convienent!

[eatgoodfood]

I personally only feed live, its less expensive and far more convenient for me. I pay a third what normal people pay for rats and mice, I pay about 1euro per animal for any size mouse and 1.50 for rats or something. I did try breeding my own for a while but it just became more work and with my wife being allergic and with her asthma it was pretty much doctors orders to stop. I will likely try again if I ever have a house where I can have an out building. I live in Germany, we have small freezers and fridges, I do not have space for rats and mice in my freezer. That means I would have to purchase a second freezer which means more energy costs, and thats already through the roof with all the racks and terrariums and inkubator.