Are ALL Spider morphs carry those goofy genetic traits?

[interloc]

I'm more of a reader here than a poster...BUT...

I am seeing quite a few folks comparing dogs to the Spider morph snakes. Now, if I understand correctly, the Spider's issues are neurlogical correct?

The shortened lifespan of large breed dogs.....brachycephalic dogs.....dogs that shake when they are cold because they are so tiny....hip dysplasia that occurs in larger breed at times....

These are not neurologic issues we are talking about in the dogs. Now say someone was breeding a breed of dog (since everyone is using dogs as a comparison for some reason), that all came out with neurological problems. Say they all walked around with a head tilt, missed their feed bowl when trying to eat, stumbles sideways when trying to walk......would that be 'okay'? Would that be as accepted by society?Just food for thought.

Neurological issues are one thing, but lifespans and physical issues that arise are not the same. Apples to oranges.

The point is (I think) that ANY problem that occurs in a species when bred is un-desirable to some people. The fact that a spiders problem is neurological and the dog's problems are physical doesn't really matter. This point has been made for years but I will make it again. Spiders eat, poop, breed and sleep the same as all other snakes. Sure there have been a few that have not made it because of their extreme problem. Im sure there are normal morph ball pythons have died because of problems too. Not necessarily wobble but a whole plethora of other problems. Look at super cinnamons. Very likely they will kink. Not 100% of them will tho. Kinda like the spider thing. Yes 100% of spiders have wobble, but only a very few cant live because of it. I dont see super cinnys getting the flack that spiders do for some reason. Another thing. No disrespect to anybody here with this next statement. Its just an observation. If your significant others family had a history of having a particular disease, would you not marry them or have kids with them because you are concerned for the human races well being? Just a thought.

[ds1091]

Well if its physical or neurological, its still a trait that a breed has a tendency to have. 3 out of the 4 german shepards i had growing up had to be put down from their hip problems and servere artheritis that they tend to develop when older. You do not hear of spiders being put down because of the wobble. As i said, as long as they feed, breed, and grow just as well if not better then all the other ball python morphs, why stop breeding a healthy snake? Just my opinion. I personally cant wait to start breeding my pastel to my new spider to make my favorite morph the bumblebee.

[DNACurtusK]

Well I can see everyone missed my point. No worries though.

[DNACurtusK]

Well if its physical or neurological, its still a trait that a breed has a tendency to have. 3 out of the 4 german shepards i had growing up had to be put down from their hip problems and servere artheritis that they tend to develop when older. You do not hear of spiders being put down because of the wobble. As i said, as long as they feed, breed, and grow just as well if not better then all the other ball python morphs, why stop breeding a healthy snake? Just my opinion. I personally cant wait to start breeding my pastel to my new spider to make my favorite morph the bumblebee.

Welllll.....there are people that are in a vegetative state that eat and poop. I wouldn't classify them as 'healthy' by any means.

I'm not on either side of the fence here. Just adding to the points being made. Bottom line is, if I'm not the one feeding it, or cleaning it, it's not really my business.

[satomi325]

Welllll.....there are people that are in a vegetative state that eat and poop. I wouldn't classify them as 'healthy' by any means.

I'm not on either side of the fence here. Just adding to the points being made. Bottom line is, if I'm not the one feeding it, or cleaning it, it's not really my business.

But vegged out people cannot feed on their own. They have to be fed. They probably can't do much of anything really....

Most spiders can strike, coil, and eat their food just fine. They can shed, defecate, and breed without human assistance.
Its the corkscrewers that have to be euthanized due to not being able to thrive on their own.

I personally don't like spiders and don't ever plan on having the gene. But I also have no problems with their existence as long as they can thrive and have a good quality of life.

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[Andrew21]

Otherwise ALL snakes would be doing it, wouldn't they???!!!! They wouldn't last 5 mins. in their native African region. Humans playing God, that's all it is. Period.

This statement holds 0 value. Umm, what do you call pairing specific morphs to eachother to get a specific offspring? Playing god, if you ask me.

And the dumbest thing you said was that they wouldn't last 5 minutes in africa. You know, because an albino ball would last longer.

[paulh]

The point is (I think) that ANY problem that occurs in a species when bred is un-desirable to some people. The fact that a spiders problem is neurological and the dog's problems are physical doesn't really matter. ...

I agree entirely. For what it's worth, a better comparison than dogs would be the various "waltzing" mutations in the laboratory mouse. They produce head tilting and spinning like a dog chasing its tail. These have been known for decades and are still available. Fainting goats are another good parallel.

[skirtinthedirt]

There are a lot of neurological disorders that present in dogs that are breed specific and inherited. Many of these dogs need to be euthanized because they cannot lead a good quality of life and treatment for neurological conditions is often very expensive and very intensive for the owner. I could list several, but everyone can also just Google it. Wikipedia has a list that can get you started.

[towelie4365]

What's wrong with a goofy trait if they are just as healthy in captivity? The snakes are just as "happy"--they eat fine, they have absolutely no problems with being alive, and as far as I know, live just as high of a quality life as a normal ball python. Could they die in the wild? Perhaps. But I hope you don't release your bp into the wild. They are pets, and if they are just as healthy, there's nothing wrong with that. I don't consider a wobble or star gazing a health issue since it doesn't shorten their lives. If anything, it adds character

Also, playing god? I don't understand that term. If by playing god you mean you're controlling what snakes are bred... then cool, if you pair together any two animals for some reason you're playing god. Or if you make a baby, you're playing god, since you chose to make life. And I guess with that, if you use contraceptives, you're also playing god. Then if you're a doctor, and you save a life, you're playing god. I hate the use of that term.

[xFenrir]

My point was that whether physical or neurological, it is an undesirable, inheritable trait that is common to the breed. My Cocker Spaniel has cateracs (a trait common in his breed) and now he's completely blind. Sure, he bumps into things sometimes, and on walks you have to make sure he stays out of the street, but for the most part he's just like any other dog; he plays, he gets excited for treats and attention and he eats anything that hits the floor. It's the same thing with the Spider morph: sure, sometimes they do that head shake when they get ready to strike, or maybe they wobble when they "periscope", but if they're eating, defecating, and everything else other snakes do on their own, then where's the problem? If YOU don't like those traits, well then don't ever buy a Spider morph. That's the bottom line, plain and simple.


And if you're griping about "playing God", then I hope you don't buy any snakes, because by your definition any animal bred intentionally by a human is "playing God". Pretty much all morphs wouldn't last in the wild, simply because they wouldn't be able to camouflage and would be picked off pretty quickly. Whether they have a neurological defect is unimportant in the wild, because it's looks alone that would get them killed before they could die of starvation or something like that.