Thanks Malcolm! Very much appreciated.

Maybe it is just in hatchlings I am having a hard time ID'ing? These are from the same breeder (His pics)

Fire:


Vanilla:


I was looking more towards the reduced pattern vanilla's, I know lots of them have more of a busy pattern like your vanilla...but these two just made me go And the thought of trying to tell them apart in a clutch full of them...is scary...lol