Ethical Dilemna?

[mattb]

Owning and carrying a gun is a very big responsibility and should not be taken lightly. The best thing you can do is read up on the laws in your state.

Here in PA the castle law use to state the only place you could legally hold your ground and use lethal force was in your own home. If you were out and about you had to make an attempt to flee when in danger before lethal force was legal. In the past year that has changed. Now you do not need to flee if you feel you life is in danger.

To those saying that you would just shoot to hurt them. They can and will sue you when they recover and they will win. As bad as it is I had a officer tell me that. Plus there has been stories about people breaking into houses and fell down the stairs and sued the homeowner and won.

[Seth702]

I have the attention span of a gold fish (3 seconds on a good day) so i didnt read every post. I want to point out that should you decide to own, and especially if you decide to carry a weapon, to go to safety class's. For your concealed permit you are required to yes, but i suggest going to them reguardless. No one is more dangerous then someone uneducated in what they are doing with their weapon. I have many personal experiences with firearm safety from being military, running a painball field for 7 years, being an avid hunter, and carrying a concealed weapon myself. On the painball field with a weapon most believe is non lethal, you would be amazed at how many people dont use the safety and walk aroudn with fingers on triggers. Ive seen people loose eyes because of this. Its horrible. In basic training for the army i watched a man nearly shoot a drill instructor because someone called his name and he just turned, weapon and all, and squeezed the trigger. I worked nights out of a service truck on semi's, i carried thousands in tools everywhere i went. I had a man walk up and take tools right out of my toolbox with me 10ft away. I chose to draw my sidearm, tell him he can have the tools just walk away. If i had chosen to shoot, i would probably have been arrested for murder over 300$ in tools. Another point is if you do infact shoot someone for legit defense of your home or your person, their family can and often will sue, your insurance will drop you. It becomes very difficult to deal with insurance companies after that. There are so many reason to enducate yourself and train your self mentaly and phisically to know how to react to these situations. Gun control no matter how strict can only go so far. People need to take responsibilty for their own actions. Some states with the highest gun control laws have the highest shooting rates. It just proves that owners are the ones who must take this responsibility, and take the time to educate yourself. When it comes to takeing a human life no one is ready for what follows. Mentally and phisicaly its demanding and does stay with you forever.

[Mminx]

The biggest problem with a weapon is knowing when to use it. To early and you have legal responsibility to prove that lethal force was necessary. Too late and you risk being disarmed, and losing your weapon to your attacker.

When I drove cab, most of the drivers I worked with that carried weapons had them used against them at some point.

Having a weapon is not enough, knowing how and when to use it is key.

[reptileexperts]

A) never shoot to only injur unless you want to be broke and in court for a while.
B) Never actually say "stop or I'll kill you" or "Drop it or I'll shoot you in the face" - can be held against you in a court of law as premeditated murder and not defense.
C) anytime lethal force is used it must only be used as
1) a last resort
2) If and only IF you're life is in immediatet danger
3) you have no other option
4) to stop someone from stealing your property
a) Varies by state, and needs to be considered in an individual basis. While it may be legal, it may not be worth it. You can ask the perp to stop and drop your items with a gun pointed at them and hope for the best, but if they are carrying a weapon things could turn ugly quick.

While I would not shoot someone over a petty theft while I was out of the house - I would shoot someone who breaks into my home while I am home. There is a big difference from arriving at a robbery than actually being home during a B&E where force may be used against you. For this your need to be prepared and understand the consequences of being prepared.

I'm assuming Mike pulled this entire thread from another thread where I gave the statement about its an ethical obligation to consider whether a persons life is worth 300 dollars. And it's a good thing to think about before you arrive in that situation. Draw bounrdries and understand your own personal limits of what you are capable of. Be confident but not over confident, and that is a very fine line.

As a concealed permit holder, daily carrier, and avid shooter I believe in my rights to stop a thief, stop an intruder, and stop a person from threatening my life or putting my life in danger at their control. I've had to show a weapon once, keep my hand near my weapon in another instance, and have read countless stories where people have been put through tough choices.

Carrying a gun, owning a gun, is part of your rights in the US. Rights that should not be hindered and are protected under the 2nd ammendment. HOW you use the gun is up to the person who holds the gun. There are consequences for using them wrong, but again only you can draw the line of what you do or do not do.

In answer to the ethical statement - IF they are running and are presumed not a threat to my well being. I'd let them run and call it in following them if I could safely. IF I can see any visual weapons, I still do the same thing UNLESS they see me and percieve me as a threat. Then I would result in placing 1-2 shots if needed. This is where my line is drawn.

[BrandiR]

I have the attention span of a gold fish (3 seconds on a good day) so i didnt read every post. I want to point out that should you decide to own, and especially if you decide to carry a weapon, to go to safety class's. For your concealed permit you are required to yes, but i suggest going to them reguardless. No one is more dangerous then someone uneducated in what they are doing with their weapon. I have many personal experiences with firearm safety from being military, running a painball field for 7 years, being an avid hunter, and carrying a concealed weapon myself. On the painball field with a weapon most believe is non lethal, you would be amazed at how many people dont use the safety and walk aroudn with fingers on triggers. Ive seen people loose eyes because of this. Its horrible. In basic training for the army i watched a man nearly shoot a drill instructor because someone called his name and he just turned, weapon and all, and squeezed the trigger. I worked nights out of a service truck on semi's, i carried thousands in tools everywhere i went. I had a man walk up and take tools right out of my toolbox with me 10ft away. I chose to draw my sidearm, tell him he can have the tools just walk away. If i had chosen to shoot, i would probably have been arrested for murder over 300$ in tools. Another point is if you do infact shoot someone for legit defense of your home or your person, their family can and often will sue, your insurance will drop you. It becomes very difficult to deal with insurance companies after that. There are so many reason to enducate yourself and train your self mentaly and phisically to know how to react to these situations. Gun control no matter how strict can only go so far. People need to take responsibilty for their own actions. Some states with the highest gun control laws have the highest shooting rates. It just proves that owners are the ones who must take this responsibility, and take the time to educate yourself. When it comes to takeing a human life no one is ready for what follows. Mentally and phisicaly its demanding and does stay with you forever.

In the state of Washington (and probably others) you aren't required to take any classes for concealed carry. Be 21 or older, show photo ID, be fingerprinted, pay fee, that's it. You're rout that you should, just not that it's a requirement.

[carlson]

In Minnesota gotta pay 100 and take a weekend class sixteen hrs

[Kodieh]

It was mentioned early on, but I'll restate it for my answer. There's a certain mentality, one that you HAVE to adopt (much like the reptile hobby) so that you don't screw it up for everyone else. It's sooooo much easier to do it when it comes to guns.

I personally don't trust myself, if someone cut me off in traffic or someone I had to deal with everyday tee'd me off...I can't say I wouldn't do it. Not kill them, of course, but use the gun in a way detrimental to others hobby. If anyone broke into my house, stole my things, harmed my family, anything super personal...yeah, depending on the situation it either be double to the chest or one to the knee and an *** whooping till they're subdued.

To cap it off, the open carry law just came into effect in Oklahoma.

Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2

[reptileexperts]

wish Texas would allow open carry it was fun open carrying in AZ! And you can do it in louisna as well.

[olstyn]

As others have already said, regardless of the laws in your state, if they're exiting the premises, it's pretty darn hard to consider them a threat, and therefore would be unethical to fire on them, even if it might be legal to do so under certain circumstances in some jurisdictions. Aside from the ethics and legality of your proposed actions, you also need to consider the consequences. Shooting someone WILL result in emotional trauma and major inconvenience for you. Unless you're unbalanced to begin with, you won't like how you feel afterward. Your gun will be taken as evidence, to be returned at a date unknown, maybe, if you're lucky, and that presumes you're found to be in the right. You'll have to spend a lot of time talking with the cops about what happened, and your story had better match the evidence.

Basically, it's going to be bad for you in some (or a lot of) ways if you shoot someone, and therefore it should only be done in order to prevent something worse, such as a direct threat on your life or someone else's life. $300 worth of your stuff walking out the back door doesn't qualify - insurance will buy you a new TV, jewelry, etc.

Finally, if you DO have to shoot, trying to wound is flat stupid. If you have justification to fire at all, it's because you have justification to kill, and especially under the influence of adrenaline, center mass is a LOT bigger/easier target than a leg or other extremity, and has the interesting side benefit of being much more likely to actually stop the threat.