i completely understand that the female needs to either be visible or het for clown under this scenario. but the person in the posting was saying you need a visible female. thats what didnt make sense to me at all. thanks to mrlang there, i now understand the advantage to having a female visible. thats if you assume that your going to try and make pastel clowns(which are gross by the way.......jk). what if you just want to make more clowns, wouldnt you want a male and multiple het females? im very glad you pointed out that fact for the scenario in which you are trying get multiple genes into the project. i hadnt thought of that and its very advantageous. with that said, i am going to assume that the person was stating that for a project involving other genes. thank you for your help guys