Really, is the market getting that bad?

[mainbutter]

Pyramid scheme.

Accept it. Work with it.

BPs are the corn snakes and leopard geckos of the future.

Frankly I don't care, I have my animals and enjoy working with them, and have breeding projects for the sake of personal enrichment. The current state of the market could have easily been foreseen. The future state of the market should be pretty easy to predict as well.

In a hobby where the collectible "items" are easily reproduced, what do you THINK is going to happen? The only thing that stabilizes prices for a short period of time is growth in terms of number of participants.

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I've noticed this too, so would you guys say it is a bad time to invest in snakes in general?

This is a great time to invest in certain species, but success only comes with hard work.

I think that one of the best investments someone can make right now is with boelens pythons. Hard work, experience, and knowledge to unlock the ability to breed them in captivity will bring someone some serious dollars in the not too far off future. However, there are always risks.

It's never a good time to invest in an over-saturated market for a particular species, and I think that ball pythons are approaching that point pretty fast.

[1nstinct]

Bp's are deff becoming to saturated for the reptile community. I love bps dont get me wrong, i have bp goals that i will be working for, and once i have some of those goals reached i plan to start my two other projects/goals, carpets and GTP. I would love to start my carpet projects right now but i do not have the space to get a breeding project going since adult carpets need cages, same with GTP's.
I really wish the market for reptiles would go back to 5-10 years ago, when you can go to a reptile show and see a lot more diversity. White plains show is amazing, but i really wish there was more diversity, i find myself talking with breeders of carpets/ bearded dragons more than breeders of ball pythons. Maybe because it seems like very ball python table has a lot of the same morphs. which is great if your looking for that certain morph, but if your looking for something different its harder to find.

[TessadasExotics]

The problem is a lot of sellers are not in it for business, so they could care less about what is good and bad for business. Then some that are in it for business don't understand business.

Then yes the economy right now has been contracting for 4 to 5 years, you can see it by looking at our GDP growth. Fewer people are actually employed. A lot of people are making a lot less than they did before, resulting in a lot of people forced into selling animals at a low price since it is a supplimental income that they need to pay to upkeep their collections. Then a lot of college kids which accounts for the majority of this kind of businesses customer growth can't find work at all or work that pays their college loans.

I agree. But I have seen numerous breeders that do this for a living drop prices by 1/2 from one year to the next, even though they sold out the previous year...and we are not talking about common morphs. It honestly makes me reluctant to do business with them.

It all depends on where you think the economy is going to go. If a sharp recovery is on the way and you wait till the recovery occurs your to late buying in. If you think the economy will drag along for years like it is then probably buying into snakes as a short term investment is not the way to go.



I see a lot of it has to do with the fact that they are line breeding those morphs today right along with other breeders. By the time a morph drops to a couple thousand dollars in cost it is being line bred to every female 10 or 15 breeders have in their collection. That definately drops the price a lot quicker than the days when a lot of breeders didn't have 100 females up and ready to breed in a given year.

I wouldnt base market price on what one individual is selling a particular animal for especially on KS

This is all so true. I will say though that it is also do to supply and demand. Many people are mass producing morphs. We do this to produce the animals we like and want, but we also look forward to producing stuff to help recoup investments on morphs and money put into their maintenance. It really hurts to see a morph drop its value in half, from what you paid, the season before you can produce it. It's dumb to drop prices so much and so fast.

[mainbutter]

If you can't buy an "underpriced" snake and flip it for what YOU think is a fair market value.. is it really worth that price?

And if someone can, why aren't they?

[Tfpets]

If you can't buy an "underpriced" snake and flip it for what YOU think is a fair market value.. is it really worth that price?

And if someone can, why aren't they?

Exactly my thoughts! If you think it's worth so much more, then buy it and flip it! Easy Money!

And I will also add that it is a serious risk to base your livelihood on a hobby business. Hobbies are the first thing that get dropped and sold off when times get tough. If i could sell off a toy, car, motorcycle, reptiles etc. to "feed the family" when needed, so be it! I think these situations rarely have anything to do with business ethics. This is where the unique market of animal breeding gets sticky. Mr. Joe Blow home breeder selling his goods right beside the biggest names in the game.

[Gloryhound]

If you can't buy an "underpriced" snake and flip it for what YOU think is a fair market value.. is it really worth that price?

And if someone can, why aren't they?

Some people breed for quality and only want their customers to get good quality animals. Not everyone believes in flipping. I primarily sell only animals I have made. Occasionally I do get animals in a trade that I only wanted one or two animals included in the trade. When this happens I feel I need to keep those unwanted animals long enough to know they are 100% and I am willing to put my name on the animal. Also I occasionally sell breeders that I no longer need, again those animals have been in my collection long enough that I will put my name on them. I also don't believe in selling other peoples Hets or Possible Hets until I have proven it regardless of the paperwork that comes with it!

Why would I want to buy someone elses garbage to sell it to my customers? That just does not make good business sense.

[sharkrocket]

You have to keep in mind that those people who are listing their ball pythons so low in price are NOT BUSINESSMEN!! They are joe blow and janet blow who have ball pythons to sell and they are sick of waiting for a buyer who is willing to pay their asking price. They might be hurting for money, so they are dropping their price because to them, $150 would help them pay their rent.

The only way it would hurt the market OVERALL is if all of us saw that and said "Oh crap they are going for $150 now. I guess my price needs to be that low!" Get out of here! You don't need to drop your price to their level. That's what hurts the market! If we all ignore that lowball price, then eventually that breeder will sell out of his stock. When someone comes to you and says "But I saw one on KS for $150," you need to explain to them that this price is not really the going price!

Colin Weaver of ECRB has some awesome articles on this subject. Please take some time and read them. They helped me so much. Well worth the time if you are considering getting into reptile breeding.

http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2009/04...price-animals/

http://ballpythonbreeder.com/category/all-posts/

[snakesRkewl]

Seems like there was a huge influx in "fast cash hobbyist" that entered the market over the past 5 years and we get to see the demise of them with all kinds of ads selling their snakes at a ridiculously low price.

[Don]

People have been talking for years about the BP market crashing. However, more and more people are getting into the market. The corn snake market crashed because the animals produce lots of babies (20 - 30 per clutch) and can be bred twice per year. BPs lay typically 6 - 8 eggs and can be bred once per year. It is a different type market. I agree with Mike Wilbanks (look at around minute six and above): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYrHOBB5zoY

[Tfpets]

"Ridiculously low prices" is a relative term. For example, you breed a pair of het pieds. You get 4 "normal possible hets" and 2 visual pieds. Let's say the market says your possible hets are worth $50 and the market says the visuals are worth $1000. When a majority of the clutch is worth $200 ($50 each), then even getting 1/2 market price, a quick $500 each for the other 2 sounds pretty good to a home breeder hobbiest! No laws against it!