Let's talk about using NIX for mites.

[angllady2]

Very useful information, Skip. Since despite your blunt nature, I consider you to be one of the most knowledgeable people here, I just might be giving your suggestion a try.

Gale

[mohawk]

I use Pam. Mostly because my local reptile store stocks it, and it has worked well for me. But because of so many people online talking about using Nix, I have been looking into it.
I have a Cousin that is the owner of a Pest Control Business, and he is pretty well educated on most pesticides. So I asked him what he thought about PAM vs NIX. He said that they have the same active ingredient (permethrin), and that they would work equally well in his opinion. But, he cautioned me about getting permethrin directly on a snake. He said either product would be fine to treat the enclosure, but advised against applying it directly to the animal. I think since the Nix is a lot less expensive, I might start using it to spray the outsides of my snake cages, and continue using PAM on the insides.

[BciJoe]

Ok, so, this is going to be fairly short and sweet... this is not to instigate riot, or challenge anyones 'opinions' or preference, not heresay, or what someone else heard, this is simply experience, like what was originally asked for.

NIX IS tested. It is tested by being used by countless large scale snake breeders and used successfully or they wouldn't continue using it. Mites die, infestations go away, snakes live, reproduce, etc.

It is not officially tested because it is not created for snakes.

PAM is one of my last choices, if even a choice. Why? because it is most expensive and least effective, in my experience!
Safe? ONLY if used as directed! If not, very harmful! Just like anything else in life.

Black Knight was by far better than PAM and the best product out there, again, in my experience (250-500 personal snakes at a time over a 15+ year period).


Why is NIX safer than PAM or any other chemical spray type mite product, in my experience? Because NIX is very limited in chemicals and/or ingredients. It is mixed with water. There are NO other chemicals, aeresols, accelerants, etc. as there are with a can of spray like PAM.

Those items are what are mostly harmful... the vapors, fumes.. that is why you have to air it out and cannot spray the animal because they will inhale this. That is what has caused neurological issues in animals for me in the past, with PAM or Black Knight when used in high concentrations and/or directly on the animal or in the cage while the animal is present.

I have SOAKED animals in NIX with NO ill effect.


MOST RECENT EXPERIENCE.

I was managing a large scale reptile farm which supplied about 1000 retail petstores nationwide. Over 100,000 reptiles on property. Many coming and going daily.

We here talk about BP's, so here's the BP experience. We would go through 10-20,000 a year. Importing many directly from Africa.

The only time we would use PAM is when treating the Aspen used for imports when we thought we might see mites. Too expensive and not the best for actually treating the mites.

During an outbreak, we used PAM and could not get it under control. The way it has to be used it not effective enough, especially not directly on the animal itself. Much else has to be done to rid the animal itself of mites. More time, effort, resources = not possible.

In one particular trailer housing about 4000 BPs I had to take a large sprayer, like what exterminators use, and spray the thing floor to ceiling with NIX. Cages, inside cages, snakes, racks, walls, etc... everything. This and only this eradicated the mites completely.

Result was clean, healthy snakes that are shipped to pet stores and we do not hear complaints. When there is any issue, especially mites or neuro issues, the pet stores would not receive the animals and enter complaints immediately. Nothing like that happened.


When receiving new shipments of BPs we would put them in large, bare tubs, maybe 50-100 per tub and spray them very liberally with NIX solution. Leave them a few minutes, drain the excess, so they can't drink it, and then repeat.
If they had lots of mites, we would repeat the next day, then after letting them dry, leave them on aspen treated with PAM for another day or two.

PAM was more to prevent reinfestation, not to treat directly or attack main cause.

BTW, if they do drink the NIX solution, we've seen runny stools, then after drinking freshwater and eating as usual, no other problems whatsoever.

The End.

[Merk]

This is where I have a problem with people recommending NIX. From all of the NIX vs PAM threads I've read, everyone claims that the NIX is essentially the same thing as PAM. But it says on the can of PAM that it is NOT to be used on the animal. I would think that spraying your snake with NIX would introduce the same chemicals as PAM to the snake, potentially causing the same problems. There are no instructions on a bottle of NIX to tell you how to use it to treat a case of snake mites, so you're going on an assumption and putting your snakes at risk over something that's never been tested safe to use on live reptiles. PAM has been tested and it's fully documented how to properly use it to eradicate a mite infestation. I had mites from my first (PetCo) snake. I came here, got the advice of PAM, ordered a can and treated according to the instructions. One treatment was all I ever needed, and the extra few bucks for PAM was worth the peace of mind.

Nix is used on Humans and supposed to be safe for children and ALL animals who encounter a child's head lice, dogs cats PETS that your child cuddles, you can shampoo a child a dog or a cat with it but not spray a very extremely diluted amount on snakes? LARGE breeders have done this after shows and Expo's for years the mix is something that should be researched but it is very simple 1-2 fl.oz bottle to one gallon of water, mix well very very well....huge dilution compared to putting it strait on the child's head...i don't like the idea of using this on anything and i will NEVER state that a pesticide is safe, but it has been successfully used as a cure and a prevention after shows...I get more piece of mind with a NIX than prevent a mite as i read how the product works and it dehydrates the mite and you have to soak your snake for 30 minutes after spraying or the snake is at risk of dehydration from the PAM...so if you have to go to such lengths to keep your snake form dying from a cure then hmmm that scares me to death...I love my snakes too much...

[wolfy-hound]

First, necro thread from long long ago...

Second, you should never ever use the argument "You can use this on a human, so it must be okay for a reptile" in any form. EVEN if it's true in this particular case that the substance can be used safely on both humans and apparently snakes, using that argument can lead to killing reptiles with things that are never safe to use on a snake.

[bcr229]

I get more piece of mind with a NIX than prevent a mite as i read how the product works and it dehydrates the mite and you have to soak your snake for 30 minutes after spraying or the snake is at risk of dehydration from the PAM...so if you have to go to such lengths to keep your snake form dying from a cure then hmmm that scares me to death...I love my snakes too much...

Ummmmmmmmmmmm... no. NIX does not work by dehydrating the mites. Reptile Spray does, it's a solution of salts. Once dry it loses its effectiveness fairly rapidly but it does work to give your snake instant relief from the mites it's currently harboring.

Both PAM and NIX contain permethrin and if your snake ingests too much of either product, then your snake can end up with neurological damage or dead, which is why the directions for PAM state not to spray it directly on the snake or its water bowl.