Battle of the Tstats! R vs J

[RoseyReps]

But you ARE putting your snakes at risk. The price doesn't matter of how much you paid for your snakes, or if you'll be breeding one pair or twelve. You are putting your first clutch at risk, because you don't want to wait and buy a proper tstat for your incubator. You ARE putting those babies at risk. I never said it was out of ignorance, I actually believe it's out of impatience. It is a hobby, yes, and rent and bills come first. But what is stopping you from saving up a few more months and holding off on pairing? You can be insulted all you like, I stated I wasn't trying to be rude to you, but you seem to be failing at seeing the big picture. If you care about these animals, why rush. I just don't see the reasoning.

You will do as you see fit, that is your right. And I truly hope you have great success and all your babies come out wonderful and healthy, and your collection is able to thrive.

[Jabberwocky Dragons]

My brand new Ranco died just three days after getting it (*not from RBI*). Fortunately, it was being used the back up T-Stat for Herpstat 1 so there was no problem other than being out the cost. Now, I only will use VE-100's as back up T-Stats. Quality, not price, is what counts. You've been given a lot of good advice from the above posters.

My suggestion would be to scroll through the fire threads and see what can happen when things go wrong with a T-Stat.

[SquamishSerpents]

your missinformed but you make a good point none the less. in my case i have only paid $245 for my 4 snakes and about 180 building the rack for them... and this season i only have one female thats ready and my only male is a pastel so at most im going to have 1 clutch and its going to be female to pastel with the best odds probably a $400 clutch at most with which money i plan to buy a VE-200 which i will use to run my rack and then when i need my incubator the VE-200 will run the incubator and let the ranco run the rack for the 60 some odd days with a zoomed tstat as a failsafe the zoomed i have now so ill already have that and it will make a perfect failsafe for the ranco. honestly i am insulted to think that you think i would honestly put my snakes at risk due to shear ignorance, i have done my fair share of research and after all this is a HOBBY rent and bills comes first or me and the snakes will be on the streets with nowhere to plug in my fancy VE-200 or my herpstat 8. im trying to safely make ends meet here and i feel like im succeeding i was only asking for advice on which seemingly equal one was better.

and there is my rant see i can do it too

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i have the rack and i have the bins and i have a cheap supplier for hoppers, i got this

Please do not take this the wrong way but...

Ok so if it's a $400 clutch, how much of that $400 is going to be spent raising the babies?

These are all approximations but here's a bit of a breakdown:

Wood/Melamine/PVC, etc: $40
Flexwatt or another heating device: $25
Tubs for each baby in an average sized clutch of 5-7 eggs: $25-$30
Food to feed the babies before you send them off to their new homes:
-$1 per fuzzy rat = $5-$7 PER FEEDING of each snake
-5 successful feedings before they go to their new homes (at $5-$7 per feeding x 5 feedings) = $25-$35. And that's IF they successfully eat every food item offered to them. Keep in mind BPs can be notoriously hard to get started, so think about double or even tripling these costs if you are feeding f/t and have to throw some of the rats away. So let's assume $100 for the cost of getting them started

GRAND TOTAL of raising this clutch: $190-$205. And that is on the very low end of things. The feeding costs may actually be much higher, as this approximation is BEST CASE scenario of all of them deciding to feed quickly and steadily, and you selling them and getting them out of your rack AS SOON AS they are ready to go. In my experience, this DOES NOT happen. You end up hanging on to babies longer than you think you will. Also, I didn't even factor in advertising costs to get people to buy the babies, hydro & electricity charges, the fact that you may have to buy ANOTHER thermostat for your baby rack, since BP clutches take anywhere from a couple of days to a week to fully hatch out. In which time, you may want to move the babies into their own tubs, which will need heat. You're going to have to deal with the fact that ball pythons aren't usually sold for what they are advertised as, and you may end up only making 1/2 - 2/3rds of what you're expecting. Their prices drop each year, etc.

NOT TO MENTION, what if you lose this clutch due to temp fluctuations? Then you're out the $ that you were going to use to purchase a better thermostat, and you're out 1 year of breeding. You would have to buy a proportional thermostat out of pocket, or risk losing all the eggs again in the next year.

I'm not saying Johnson or Ranco thermostats are BAD, I'm just saying in my own personal opinion, I would never use one for incubation. And I'm not going on a rant here, I just want you to see it from the perspective of people who actually try & make money in this biz. It's not easy. There are an astronomical amount of costs that people forget to factor in, and I just wanted to make you aware of them.

[kitedemon]

I too would not suggest either for an incubator. Both have not very accurate probes incubators need accurate temps. Both J and R have a 2º+/- error range. This is too inaccurate for a incubator. That means you would need to add an accurate thermometer better than off the shelf ones. That means adding more cash, I would think at least one accurate to 1ºF or better and certified accurate (traceable) Ones that fit this bill run in the hundreds of dollars. In fact you could save some cash by using something like say a herpstat as they are less than a good thermometer and have this kind of accuracy. This is a reason to buy a proportional as most (in N america anyway) have less than one degree error. IMO a J or R can be used but only in conjunction with an accurate thermometer.

It is like buying a sports car because you got a good deal on the tires.

[jfaria1891]

Ok, to squamishserpants i have all the stuff i need to house the babies already but the price breakdown was still helpful, no sarcasm her thank you. And your all right i already ordered the ranco BUT i have months before im going to need the incubator which your right does give me time to save up so i will NOT run my incubator on the ranco i should have more then enough time to get a ve - 200 which will be well worth it even more so because i deff cant afford 2 of them so the ve200 can run my rack when im not using my incubator and for the 60ish days i do use my incubator ill use the ranco i already ordered on the rack with the zoomed failsafe, does that sound better?

I want to thank everyone for beating this into by the way. I can be stubborn at times.

[kitedemon]

Just out of curiosity why chose a VE over a herpstat? I have constantly wondered this, if someone else had released the VE200 and not RB it would likely be a flop. Of all the major bands (herpstat, ecozone, herp keeper, helix ,VE) it has the fewest features of all but the helix, which as near as I can tell is a copy of. The base model has no alarms, no night drop, no cooling, is pulse proportional. I actually don't get it, the price of the herpstat is the same and for 25$ more you can get a HS1 which has two more safety features (relay and low temp shut down). What is so attractive about the VE? Honest question I simply do not get it.

[Dave Green]

I've thrown away approx. six rancos in the last few years. In my experience they last two or three years and then die. I've switched to Herpstats and really like them. Also, I've used Helix thermostats for my incubators and never had an issue.

[UpNorth]

If I had to choose between a Ranco and a Johnston, I'd probably go with a Herpstat.

[Simplex]

If your broke, why are u breeding?? If you cant buy the proper supplies, you shouldn't breed.

If your looking to save money go to hone depot and buy a shop light and a dimmer.. That should work!!!

[Simplex]

I see my reply was answered already..

I just dont understand how you can be so chill about not providing the best care.

Im a cold hearted sob too, i separate myself emotionally from this hobby alot. Ive lost babies before, and it sucks dont get me wrong, but i dont cry about it. Because i know it wasnt an error in what I did. Nature acts weird sometimes..

You need to eliminate variables, not introduce them, u have beeding animals u have run off a zoomed im assuming reostat?

This is not s cheap hobby!!! Its not knitting.. Cant just pick up some cheap sticks.. U need titanium rods, or else the figurative scarf your trying to make is gonna unravel, and your gonna be left with a big headache.

My rant and .02