I found this very interesting

[OhhWatALoser]

I also don't know whether the animal will be able to reproduce normally, and more specifically, what happens to the offspring that inherit the "null" mojave gene ... I would assume it would be unable to throw the wild-type gene, though, since in theory it doesn't actually have one.

And, IMO, if this animal DOES produce wild-type offspring, that suggests that we might be wrong as to what's happening here. (Unless someone can counter me on that, which I would welcome ...)

Nice info thanks, Just from quick reading it seems like Hemizygous refers to a normal condition. like in your link the example is "For example, the male is hemizygous for most X chromosome genes." which would be completely normal generation after generation. I'll read more into it later tho.

I guess im going to try and counter.

The BEL popped up out of nowhere. I think the mystery would be why did the gene disappear? and if it did disappear, wouldn't it still be able to pass the "null" empty slot. So if it was paired to a normal, the empty slot could be passed, thus it would have 1 copy of the wild type and look normal. Now take it farther, Pair that normal with the empty slot to a mojave, there is a chance of BEL again. All assuming the empty slot can be passed.

[wwmjkd]

Nice info thanks, Just from quick reading it seems like Hemizygous refers to a normal condition. like in your link the example is "For example, the male is hemizygous for most X chromosome genes." which would be completely normal generation after generation. I'll read more into it later tho.

I guess im going to try and counter.

The BEL popped up out of nowhere. I think the mystery would be why did the gene disappear? and if it did disappear, wouldn't it still be able to pass the "null" empty slot. So if it was paired to a normal, the empty slot could be passed, thus it would have 1 copy of the wild type and look normal. Now take it farther, Pair that normal with the empty slot to a mojave, there is a chance of BEL again. All assuming the empty slot can be passed.

even assuming the 'null' hemizygous trait is hereditary, wouldn't this particular animal still only be able to produce mojaves and normals? unless it's paired with a sibling who also potentially inherited the trait, the wild-type slot would still be present and provided by the mate. I might be off, but I'm reading two discrete issues-the first is whether it would be capable of producing BELs when paired with a normal (which I don't think it would) and the second is whether the phenomenon is completely anomalous or heriditary.

[OhhWatALoser]

even assuming the 'null' hemizygous trait is hereditary, wouldn't this particular animal still only be able to produce mojaves and normals?

heres how im seeing it in my head

M=Mojave
N=Null

	M	N
m	Mm (mojave)	mN (Normal with Null)

then if that normal with the null was breed to a mojave

	m	N
M	Mm (Mojave)	MN (BEL looking)
m	mm (normal)	mN (normal with null)

but as you saying, its assuming a lot.

[BHReptiles]

The BEL popped up out of nowhere. I think the mystery would be why did the gene disappear? and if it did disappear, wouldn't it still be able to pass the "null" empty slot. So if it was paired to a normal, the empty slot could be passed, thus it would have 1 copy of the wild type and look normal. Now take it farther, Pair that normal with the empty slot to a mojave, there is a chance of BEL again. All assuming the empty slot can be passed.

Honestly, I think that if the animal could breed, he would contribute one of two things: the mojave gene, or the empty slot. Think about it: when he's going through spematogenesis (the production of sperm), his DNA is constantly being divided into single strands. His genes are spilt apart. Here's an image to follow what I'm saying. This is for a HUMAN thus the 46 chromosome. Snakes have a different number of chromosomes, so that 46 will change but the process is the same: http://img.sparknotes.com/content/te...atogenesis.gif

Now, by the time he's making sperm, some of those sperm cells will have the mojave gene in it and will be passed on to produce a mojave or super mojave baby (if paired with another mojave). The other sperm who don't have the mojave gene will do one of two things (I'm not sure if this is highly studied or not): 1. die because there is a chromosomal defect or 2. do like any other sperm and fertilize the egg. However, this new zygote (fertilized egg) would only have one copy of the gene...the gene it got from the MOTHER. So for example: the mother passed on a spider gene, the resulting baby would be a spider. If the mother is a normal, the resulting baby would be a normal. If the mother gave a cinny gene, the baby would be a cinny, etc. Now, if the mother happened to be mojave, the mother could contribute the mojave gene to the baby would would then express the "super mojave" look because it would be genetically similar to the father. Father gave it no gene, mother gave it the mojave gene. That would be impossible to determine if the baby was a true super mojave or just looked like a super mojave unless it was genetically tested. Which...doesn't exist to my knowledge for snakes.

[Serpent_Nirvana]

Honestly, I think that if the animal could breed, he would contribute one of two things: the mojave gene, or the empty slot. Think about it: when he's going through spematogenesis (the production of sperm), his DNA is constantly being divided into single strands. His genes are spilt apart. Here's an image to follow what I'm saying. This is for a HUMAN thus the 46 chromosome. Snakes have a different number of chromosomes, so that 46 will change but the process is the same: http://img.sparknotes.com/content/te...atogenesis.gif

Now, by the time he's making sperm, some of those sperm cells will have the mojave gene in it and will be passed on to produce a mojave or super mojave baby (if paired with another mojave). The other sperm who don't have the mojave gene will do one of two things (I'm not sure if this is highly studied or not): 1. die because there is a chromosomal defect or 2. do like any other sperm and fertilize the egg. However, this new zygote (fertilized egg) would only have one copy of the gene...the gene it got from the MOTHER. So for example: the mother passed on a spider gene, the resulting baby would be a spider. If the mother is a normal, the resulting baby would be a normal. If the mother gave a cinny gene, the baby would be a cinny, etc. Now, if the mother happened to be mojave, the mother could contribute the mojave gene to the baby would would then express the "super mojave" look because it would be genetically similar to the father. Father gave it no gene, mother gave it the mojave gene. That would be impossible to determine if the baby was a true super mojave or just looked like a super mojave unless it was genetically tested. Which...doesn't exist to my knowledge for snakes.

You were on an interesting track but you're forgetting that the spider, cinny, etc., genes are all on different "slots" (loci) than the mojave gene. So while you're right that, if the mom was a spider the baby could be a spider, etc., that has no bearing on what goes on over on the mojave locus.

@ OWAL -- yes, hemizygosity is the normal condition for the male mammal, as he is hemizygous for the entire X chromosome.

I'm learning all about hemizygosity ... Learning is fun!

[ARpythons]

Hey everyone,
I'm not sure whats going on with her. The null hypothesis seems to be the most likely explanation right now. Hopefully I can get her to breeding size in a few years and find out if and how she will reproduce. Either way she is going to be a keeper. Glad to see you all found it interesting as well.
thanks
John

[BHReptiles]

You were on an interesting track but you're forgetting that the spider, cinny, etc., genes are all on different "slots" (loci) than the mojave gene. So while you're right that, if the mom was a spider the baby could be a spider, etc., that has no bearing on what goes on over on the mojave locus.

I was more using it just to demonstrate a point, not to say they were all on the same loci. Sorry if that was some confusion.

[gsarchie]

I would urge anyone who is looking at this as a snake with an "empty slot" to stop doing so, it will make it easier to understand the possibilities with this girl. There is not an empty slot at the loci on one of this girls chromosomes, there is DNA there but for whatever reason it isn't functioning properly and expressing the pattern/color that it should be. As far as I can see this is happenening for one of two reasons, one being that the copy of the gene is non-functioning as a result of the gene itself being transformed and the other being that it is non-functioning because certain envirnmental factors during development blocked it's function.

If it is the former then this snake will pass on (on the BEL complex locus) functioning mojave genes and non-functioning normal genes, so when bred to a mojave it would produce 1/2 BELs and 1/2 Normals. The BELs would be 1/2 normal BELs and 1/2 BELs with one mojave gene and one non-functioning gene and the normals would be 1/2 normal and 1/2 with one each functioning and non-functioning normal genes. When bred to a normal she would produce 1/2 normals and 1/2 mojaves with all of the normals having a copy of the non-functioning gene.

If it is the latter she will breed just like a mojave and the condition won't be passed down to offspring unless the same environmental conditions that caused the condition in the first place pop up again.

I'm inclined to believe that it is the latter but that is just my $0.02 based on my knowledge of genetics, which comes from what I've read online and in books about herpetoculture as well as 3 years and KU getting my BS in biology and taking genetics classes. Also, I hope that all of that made sense, and keep in mind that I could be completely wrong here, again it is just my $0.02.

[OhhWatALoser]

I would urge anyone who is looking at this as a snake with an "empty slot" to stop doing so, it will make it easier to understand the possibilities with this girl. There is not an empty slot at the loci on one of this girls chromosomes, there is DNA there but for whatever reason it isn't functioning properly and expressing the pattern/color that it should be. As far as I can see this is happenening for one of two reasons, one being that the copy of the gene is non-functioning as a result of the gene itself being transformed and the other being that it is non-functioning because certain envirnmental factors during development blocked it's function.

If it is the former then this snake will pass on (on the BEL complex locus) functioning mojave genes and non-functioning normal genes, so when bred to a mojave it would produce 1/2 BELs and 1/2 Normals. The BELs would be 1/2 normal BELs and 1/2 BELs with one mojave gene and one non-functioning gene and the normals would be 1/2 normal and 1/2 with one each functioning and non-functioning normal genes. When bred to a normal she would produce 1/2 normals and 1/2 mojaves with all of the normals having a copy of the non-functioning gene.

The empty slot was brought up in a scenario where we would call it Hemizygous, we are all just theorizing right now, but my point was you could still get normals if that was the case if the "empty slot" could be passed in a Hemizygous case. We were just trying to find something similar else in the genetic world, I dont think whats going on would be considered Hemizygous, but it's the closest thing I've seen so far in the real genetic world. What I haven't looked into was if Hemizygous can be caused by other factors rather normal conditions.

also you would get mojaves in that mix also. there wouldn't be any normals without the non-functioning gene.

	M	N
M	MM (Real BEL)	MN (BEL looking)
m	Mm (Mojave)	mN (normal with null)

[paulh]

I think "deletion" would be a more appropriate term than "hemizygous".

A deletion occurs when a section of a chromosome has been cut out of the chromosome. Think of a piece of rope. A part of the rope is colored red and the rest is normal tan. Take a knife and cut out some or all of the red part. Then splice the two cut ends of the remaining rope together. The chromosome has no empty part; it has had a piece deleted, making it shorter than the original rope.

Chromosomes that have had a deletion have been found in both fruit flies and mice. Such chromosomes are passed on to following generations just like normal chromosomes. But the action of the deleted gene or genes no longer happens.

The computer I'm on now doesn't have speakers or headphones so I cannot hear the video sound track. I'll get it later, when I get on another computer.