Maybe it's just me, but...

[Slashmaster]

As someone slowly learning the ropes to be a new breeder and raising up a decent number of morph females, here are my thoughts on the matter:

I simply adore ball python morphs. The thought of breeding two snakes with multiple genes together and waiting to see what the randomizer gives me in each egg is an amazing thought. I wouldn't be too interested in breeding normals together (despite a fascination for watching eggs hatch) due to not feeling confident in finding a good home for the babies, though. I plan on breeding expensive morphs together because I know there's a demand for them, and if someone's going to pay me a decent chunk of money for him or her (whether that's $200 or $2000 or $20,000), I know the animal is most likely going to be treated properly due to the investment the other put into the purchase. It's not a promise, of course, but it's a likelihood. Why mistreat an animal you invested so much money in at the risk of it becoming ill or dying?

The money matters to me too. Making money through this hobby is going to matter. The reason? So I can continue investing it in buying more excellent examples of morphs and supporting other breeders by doing so and expanding the genetic pool of my collection. Money helps me buy an unrelated male DH albino/pied when I breed my albino and pied in hopes for females in order to avoid inbreeding as best I can and produce healthier animals as a result. Money helps me invest in a brand new gene for my collection that I could then breed to my other animals to produce more beautiful animals. Money helps feed animals and purchase new racks and pay for trips to the vet with more ease than simply paying those expenses out of pocket. Would I pay them out of pocket? Of course! No animal would go hungry or without proper environment or care, but it's a whole lot easier when your hobby can break even or earn some profit to reinvest back into it.

I don't expect to make a living off breeding ball pythons and I can't say I'd really want to. I just want to breed what I think is beautiful and the market can sustain. I wouldn't want to breed animals that the market had no demand for out of fear that they wouldn't be able to be sold to good homes. I could keep them, of course, and don't plan on breeding anything I can't support if it were left unsold, but part of my reason for breeding is to share my creations with others and to see them appreciate the results as much as I did when producing them. It's the same reason that -- despite loving the idea of breeding ball pythons in general -- I wouldn't breed a normal x normal or a co-dom x normal, simply because I don't feel the market needs more breedings of that sort.

Well, that's just the thought of a newbie. Your mileage may vary.

[sissysnakes]

While I agree that wilomn could tone it down a bit, I do have to point out that you are not saying anything deep or particularly valuable either. I think you can give someone's posts a "negative" rating if they bother you that much.

Honestly your right. I should have just let it go and did as you said. I apologize to other readers if I was out of line. I do not apologize for my first post, however I understand Wilomn's retaliation. It did not mean that I needed to retaliate in tern.
Thanks meowmeowkazoo

[1nstinct]

I dont see much basing going on i just see a argument/debate/what ever you want to call it, not everyone agrees with one another.ex i disagree with mike that he thinks cinnamons are better that black pastels even know everyone know black pastels are 100X better(sorry mike needed and example and we all know you love cinnamons)
i agree with some of your points and disagree with a lot of them. yes the ball python market is being saturated with low quality animals ex-pastels but that is in everything, not everyone can afford the top quality of everything they want. I personally look at each of my snakes/animals as part of my family. I come home from work, say hi to my parents and gf and dog/cats then go into my reptile room open each cage/tub and check on each of my animals to make sure they have a clean cage/water, and say hi to all of them. does this mean when buying them i didnt think of the how much money when breed they could "possible" produce, no i did. I chose each and everyone of my animals by looking at them and comparing them to other one of that morph and based my decision on how i like their colors/patterns of the individual snake. some times i paid more than "market" sometimes i paid less. But when buying i did think of how much money could possible be made from selling the offspring, for the sole reason, if the offspring didn't fit into my breeding plans they would be up for sale, ex i plan to hold back as many females as i can and only 1-2 males, when i breed my pastel lesser to a killer bee, if i hit the killer queen bee and it is a female i will be holding it back, but if it is a male it will be up for sale. The only reason i plan on selling the offspring is if i can have a hobby that generates money back into my hobby it is a win win for me. I get to keep the snakes i really like even if they never breed for me and never help generate any money into my hobby, while selling the others that will help pay for new rack/ new snakes/ food and supplies for the snakes i do have. I truly dont know if i would able to breed snakes for a living, yes it would be great do have my hobby pay the bills and support my family, but i would never want to walk into my snake room and see my snakes and think of it as a job, instead of my hobby.
but that is strictly my opinion
tom

[ChrisS]

Now this is a good read. I hate people who jump in and think they can make it rich with out knowing what they are doing. It's not a get rich quick scheme that works, it takes a lot to breed so I don't feel any breeders ( especially those on this site) are in it for the money. They know what work is and show it in the animals they produce and care for. I love over the top semantics, so someone please disagree with what I said and use "bigboy language" lol

[2balls]

I'm new to all of this and after reading everything I have in the last couple months, I have often wondered about the normals and most common morphs that get sold. Whenever I ask questions about mine (I have a normal with super strong het pied markers, yellow splotches on the belly who also has a white spot) I'm told over and over to breed her and see what happens. Let's say I did. I love my bp's and take wonderful care of them, but if I ended up hatching a large clutch of normals, what would I do with them?? I'm certain that with the effort to income ratio, most breeders take good care of and care about THEIR snakes. I just worry about where the babies are all going to end up. Especially the super affordable ones! With so much emphasis being placed on the high dollar morphs, do the others become "throw aways"?

[Capray]

I agree, it irks me a bit when people think about nothing but breeding, it seems as if there's hardly anyone who just has a pet, like me. But, of course it's their decision and everything, as long as the snakes are taken care of, I guess I can't complain. :/

[1nstinct]

most of the big breeders will wholesale their normal(mostly males) ball pythons to pet stores. and if your going to breed your possible het pied male your best bet is to breed him to a pied female so there is no question is he is a het pied or not. and this would leave you with with het pieds and pieds(if he proves out)

[sissysnakes]

Not to mention, the animals deserve more respect than that. I see the same thing with dog breeders in my area. What I'm getting at is... If you plan to start breeding snakes, make sure you're doing it for the right reasons. And don't expect to make a living off of it, because it's not an easy thing to do.

I do have to say that having grown up in the dog breeding/serious showing community any dog breeder who is doing it to make a quick buck is considered a glorified puppy mill. All of the rescues/clubs and legitimate breeders that I know do not agree with breeding for profit and those breeders they do agree with do not often make much from a litter if any at all (most puppies go to other breeders for show and the rest normally go to great screened families for the price of vet bills). A good breeder is someone who will Always take the dog back even if it is 12 years old and needs vet care.. none do it for the money, and none want to see their dogs go to a pound. This is not to say that I dislike people who have accidental litters.. I do feel that you must have responsibility for any animal you choose to bring into this world (and I do not have anything against big time snake breeders)... If you have purposefully bred an animal make sure its offspring are cared for, with that said you can't always take in every variable.

[meowmeowkazoo]

I'm new to all of this and after reading everything I have in the last couple months, I have often wondered about the normals and most common morphs that get sold. Whenever I ask questions about mine (I have a normal with super strong het pied markers, yellow splotches on the belly who also has a white spot) I'm told over and over to breed her and see what happens. Let's say I did. I love my bp's and take wonderful care of them, but if I ended up hatching a large clutch of normals, what would I do with them?? I'm certain that with the effort to income ratio, most breeders take good care of and care about THEIR snakes. I just worry about where the babies are all going to end up. Especially the super affordable ones! With so much emphasis being placed on the high dollar morphs, do the others become "throw aways"?

I think the most common solution for normals that don't sell, is to wholesale them to a local pet store.

[2balls]

most of the big breeders will wholesale their normal(mostly males) ball pythons to pet stores. and if your going to breed your possible het pied male your best bet is to breed him to a pied female so there is no question is he is a het pied or not. and this would leave you with with het pieds and pieds(if he proves out)

I know. And I don't plan on breeding. Not because I think it's a bad thing, I just don't have the time to find the right homes for all the normals I would hatch out and since one of my bp's is a petsmart "rescue", I would never feel good about forwarding them on to a place like that. That's exactly my point. I don't know where you live but the pet stores around me are filled with severely underfed normals. And as long as someone comes in with the money, they will sell them the snake. Who knows what happens after that. I would want to check in with the new owners of any snake I sold. Even the normals.