rat tub size?

[JaGv]

im thinking of breeding rats soon since mice take to long to reach the size needed for my snakes. currently in using 17qt tubs. would that be a good size to keep a pair of breeding rats?

[youbeyouibei]

That might be a little small for a breeding pair. The biggest concern with that small of a footprint would be the pinks getting trampled underfoot from the adults. Also, you're going to wear the female out in a hurry if you're breeding her back-to-back repeatedly like that; females can come into heat only a few days after giving birth and if she's nursing a litter of pinks while another litter is developing, she's going to be taxed out in a hurry and more than likely won't last long. How many snakes and what type of snakes are you trying to feed and what sizes (hatchlings, adults, juveniles,...)? Here's a link for raising rats in tubs if you don't want to build a rack:

http://www.repticzone.com/forums/Rod...s/2151516.html

Metal Monkey Exotics has a great DIY tutorial on their web-site but it says the link/page is "broken" when I try to click on it. If you can find it, there's some good information on their site about what size tubs they use and how they set them up without using a rack system.

[JaGv]

That might be a little small for a breeding pair. The biggest concern with that small of a footprint would be the pinks getting trampled underfoot from the adults. Also, you're going to wear the female out in a hurry if you're breeding her back-to-back repeatedly like that; females can come into heat only a few days after giving birth and if she's nursing a litter of pinks while another litter is developing, she's going to be taxed out in a hurry and more than likely won't last long. How many snakes and what type of snakes are you trying to feed and what sizes (hatchlings, adults, juveniles,...)? Here's a link for raising rats in tubs if you don't want to build a rack:

http://www.repticzone.com/forums/Rod...s/2151516.html

Metal Monkey Exotics has a great DIY tutorial on their web-site but it says the link/page is "broken" when I try to click on it. If you can find it, there's some good information on their site about what size tubs they use and how they set them up without using a rack system.

i was thinking of buying 2 females. i do have a big tub but its not 1 of those clear tubs and a 28qt tub. i will be feeding bp's 2 500-600g females and 2 200-300g males

[youbeyouibei]

The "rule" it seems like most breeders go by is to have at least one breeder female per snake, if not more than one female per snake to make sure you have enough feeders and also to keep from wearing the females out too much. I have 14 snakes currently and have 32 breeder females with another 10 grow-outs being raised up and four males I cycle through on a rotating weekly basis. The males are mostly just for color/coat type rather than needing that many to breed the girls I have. I run my girls on the schedule from this link/chart (http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-Many-to-Breed) and it works great for me. I have enough feeders to hold some back as grow-outs and also enough to feed for that week with enough to also be held back to raise up to small/medium size for my adult snakes. It takes some tinkering when you're first getting started but with a little trial and error it can get to be almost as much fun raising the feeders as it is to raise the snakes themselves. You could probably make the smaller/shorter tubs work with what you're wanting to do, I'd just be concerned with the rats being able to chew and/or jump/push their way out with the lid being unsecured. The shorter height on the 28 quart tubs would let them push against the floor while they pushed the lid up with their heads; a tall tub eliminates that possibility with taller height.

[JaGv]

the only tall tub i have is all blue and its not clear. would that be fine to use?

[youbeyouibei]

Color won't matter at all nor will the level of clarity/opaqueness. Just make sure to put vent "windows" covered with the hardware cloth, otherwise the odor from the urine/feces will build up in a hurry and make your rats sick/cause a stink. Rats are intelligent and social animals so I wouldn't close them up in a tub with no access to the outside world; that'd be cruel and not the least bit healthy for them in terms of social interaction and/or respiratory issues. If you're set on using tubs to raise them, I'd say just cut some "windows" in the sides and then cover them over with the hardware cloth to let them see out and facilitate airflow in the tub. If you cut "windows" on opposite sides, it would let the air draft across to keep the amonia/stink down while also lettig them see outside the tub. It won't hurt them any to be in dimmer light conditions just don't shut them up in a box and leave them is all. Not saying you would, just saying...if you reference the link I posted about setting up a tub and just use the one you have (clear or not, it won't matter), you should be good. Racks are a lot more work to build at first but in the end they're a LOT easier, at least for me. Not sure what your situation is as far as finances/availability of tools but you can build one out of decent lumber (not top choice boards but lesser quality) for around $200.00 or so, total, if you have the lumber store cut the dimensions you want. That's for a six tub rack and if you tack on 20' feet of tubing, a 3 gallon reservoir and 8 sippers/water nozzles from Reptile Basics, you're at around $260 or so, tops, with shipping and everything. I dunno, just a thought. I've done both and for ease of cleaning/health of the animals and space utilization, I'll take my racks over tubs every time. I've used these plans to build the three breeder racks I have:

http://www.arbreptiles.com/cages/rat_rack/ratrack.shtml

Whatever works for you, just a thought. Take care and good luck!

[JaGv]

ok ive got alot of those tubs just laying around ill put them to use. i have all the tools needed since i install wood floors and people sometimes give me unwanted lumber so i if i want to make a little 4-5 tub rack all i have to do is buy smaller tubs.

[youbeyouibei]

Heck yeah! Racks all the way if you have the tools/knowledge of construction for how to put them together! They're a heck of a lot easier and when your production ramps up, you'll have "extra" tubs for grow outs if you hold any back or need to raise them up a few weeks extra to get up to size. A male or two and 8-10 females and you'll be set if you run 1.2 per tub and switch them off every other week or whatever to offset the litters by a week each. I used 1/4" hardware cloth in all of mine and the 3/16" barbed water valves from RBI or Edstrom both work great in that size and it saves buying the clips to hold them in. Just feed the barbed end up through the hole in the screen and the tension from the tubing/slightly tight diameter of the opening in the wire holds it on no problem. I've not yet had one come loose and flood out a tub. The valves leak on occasion from the rats jamming pieces of aspen in them or just faulty springs but otherwise I've had zero issues. They cost about the same but from my experience, I've had fewer issues with the Edstrom valves than the ones I got from Reptile Basics. Rich has some great products but the valves were a pain...at least the batch I got. I think there is an issue with the spring tension, as they tend to loosen up after a month or two and start a slow drip. Not a huge issue but it gets to be a pain changing bedding every day from it getting soaked the night before. That's just my experience with them, whatever that's worth. Depending what type/size of reservoir you use, you might need to account for a higher platform to give it enough pressure to fill the lines all the way to the bottom tub. The reservoirs I use I bought at RBI and from talking to Rich, they're designed to be used with 12" of elevation to give them enough pressure to push the water through all the line. One thing I found out after the fact, so to save you some headache, maybe. Good luck and I'd like to see your setup when you get it done if you elect to go that route.

[JaGv]

well right now i still got breeding mice. and i just bought a pair of rats today to try it out see how that goes before buying more females. im thinking of making a big tub into a cage for 1.3 rats like you said then maybe move up to a rack. im kind of limiting my budget since my girlfriend is due with out 1st child in less than 3 months

[youbeyouibei]

Congratulations on the baby, that's cool! And I hear ya' on the funding and having your priorities straight. Not trying to spend your money for you or steer you into anything if it came across that way. Sounds like a plan on getting a few and trying it before you make the leap. Only thing I would add would be to start with good stock for your breeders; PetSmart/Petco both suck for selling animals that are worth much of anything as far as genetics if you're wanting to raise your own feeders. You might luck out and find someone on Hoobly.com or someone from BP.net that's local to you that would set you up with some breeders. Not sure where you were planning on getting your starters from but I'd steer clear of the big box pet stores if that was the plan. Good luck with getting started on things and again, congratulations on the little one you guys are expecting!