Mice vs rats vs quail?

[grizzjr1]

Hey all, I have a baby BP and was wondering about feeders. I have read that rats are more nutritious than mice, but they are less available around my area. I am probably going to order frozen feeders online, but when I went to look at the options, I saw quail. Is there any advantages to quail (or even chicken) over mice and rats? Are ball pythons even supposed to have quail? Haha. I don't really care about price because all seem to be relatively cheap, I just wanted to hear some opinions on the subject. Thanks in advance for any responses

[SRMD]

Stick to Mice or Rats,

Chicks, Quails i am sure can be fatty.

[MasonC2K]

I have always read that fowl of any kind are not appropriate for BPs. I've heard that BOP's get diarrhea from eating them. They don't eat birds in the wild that I am aware of either.

[Andybill]

I would assume that birds are more appropriate for arboreal species like GTPs than BPs. I would recommend that you stick to rodents namely rats for BPs. I am sure quail and chicks are more spendy and difficult to come by as well...

[Vypyrz]

Here is a 2002 report from the United States Department of Agriculture on the Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey. There are charts at the bottom, where you can compare mice to rats to quail. Hope it helps...

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/Who...nal02May29.pdf

[grizzjr1]

Stick to Mice or Rats,

Chicks, Quails i am sure can be fatty.

I have always read that fowl of any kind are not appropriate for BPs. I've heard that BOP's get diarrhea from eating them. They don't eat birds in the wild that I am aware of either.

I would assume that birds are more appropriate for arboreal species like GTPs than BPs. I would recommend that you stick to rodents namely rats for BPs. I am sure quail and chicks are more spendy and difficult to come by as well...

Here is a 2002 report from the United States Department of Agriculture on the Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey. There are charts at the bottom, where you can compare mice to rats to quail. Hope it helps...

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/Who...nal02May29.pdf

I was thinking they would like mice or rats more, here is the info from that pdf for each of them:

Animal DM% Crude Protein% Crude Fat% Ash% Gross Energy kcal/g Size/Age

Mouse, domestic 19.1 64.2 17.0 9.7 4.87 Neonatal, <3 g
Mouse, domestic 18.2 44.2 30.1 8.5 6.65 Juvenile, 3-10 g
Mouse, domestic 32.7 55.8 23.6 11.8 5.25 Adult or >10 g
Rat 20.8 57.9 23.7 12.2 5.30 Neonatal, <10 g
Rat 30.0 56.1 27.5 14.8 5.55 Juvenile, 10-50 g 15
Rat 33.9 61.8 32.6 9.8 6.37 Adult or >50 g

Chicken 25.6 64.9 22.4 6.4 5.80 One-day-old
Chicken 32.5 42.3 37.8 9.4 5.90 Adult
Quail, Japanese 34.6 71.5 31.9 9.9 6.79 (Not stated, adult maybe?)

According to the data Quail would be best? Maybe? I'm not 100% haha, but I'm sure since they don't eat them in the wild, so their stomachs aren't adapted to process it correctly which could result in the diarrhea. The chicks and quail are actually around the same price from RodentPro. I will probably stick with rats or mice if that's what you guys recommend. Should I switch to rats when I get the chance or just stick with mice for now?

[Anatopism]

I was thinking they would like mice or rats more, here is the info from that pdf for each of them:

Animal DM% Crude Protein% Crude Fat% Ash% Gross Energy kcal/g Size/Age

Mouse, domestic 19.1 64.2 17.0 9.7 4.87 Neonatal, <3 g
Mouse, domestic 18.2 44.2 30.1 8.5 6.65 Juvenile, 3-10 g
Mouse, domestic 32.7 55.8 23.6 11.8 5.25 Adult or >10 g
Rat 20.8 57.9 23.7 12.2 5.30 Neonatal, <10 g
Rat 30.0 56.1 27.5 14.8 5.55 Juvenile, 10-50 g 15
Rat 33.9 61.8 32.6 9.8 6.37 Adult or >50 g

Chicken 25.6 64.9 22.4 6.4 5.80 One-day-old
Chicken 32.5 42.3 37.8 9.4 5.90 Adult
Quail, Japanese 34.6 71.5 31.9 9.9 6.79 (Not stated, adult maybe?)

According to the data Quail would be best? Maybe? I'm not 100% haha, but I'm sure since they don't eat them in the wild, so their stomachs aren't adapted to process it correctly which could result in the diarrhea. The chicks and quail are actually around the same price from RodentPro. I will probably stick with rats or mice if that's what you guys recommend. Should I switch to rats when I get the chance or just stick with mice for now?

The problem is that we don't actually know the nutritional needs of ball pythons. Isn't the article geared more towards feeding mammals, or is there a section I missed about nutritonal needs of reptiles, in relation to the chart? We can't flat out look at the chart and say one thing is healthier than the other, because of protein or fat content, without knowing how much protein/fat is just enough or too much.

The sooner you can get switched to rats, the better, for no other reason than because it will save you money in the long run. You will spend much less on an adult rat to feed an adult BP, than you will to feed several mice to make up the same amount of food - and some BPs will not take multiple small meals.

[marya1962]

Isn't there a lot of bad reviews with RodentPro quality of rodents? I know when I used them the warmed-up rodent stank of urine and had to be washed before feeding to my RTB. Since then I switched to Rodent Deli for rats and LLL Reptile Supplies for mice.

[AK907]

Isn't there a lot of bad reviews with RodentPro quality of rodents?

I guess it depends on where they get them from, but we've gotten a lot of feeders over the years from Rodent Pro and we've never had a single issue. Other sources are another story. So my guess is that you just got a bad batch.

[grizzjr1]

The problem is that we don't actually know the nutritional needs of ball pythons. Isn't the article geared more towards feeding mammals, or is there a section I missed about nutritonal needs of reptiles, in relation to the chart? We can't flat out look at the chart and say one thing is healthier than the other, because of protein or fat content, without knowing how much protein/fat is just enough or too much.

The sooner you can get switched to rats, the better, for no other reason than because it will save you money in the long run. You will spend much less on an adult rat to feed an adult BP, than you will to feed several mice to make up the same amount of food - and some BPs will not take multiple small meals.

Yeah that is very true, I guess I was just looking at protein and energy in them, but ball pythons may need less rather than more. I didn't really think that through well I guess haha. I have 3 frozen hoppers, I will order some rats for after the mice are gone. I have to weigh my snake to figure out exactly what size, but pinkies or fuzzies (rats) would do if he's on hoppers, correct?

Isn't there a lot of bad reviews with RodentPro quality of rodents? I know when I used them the warmed-up rodent stank of urine and had to be washed before feeding to my RTB. Since then I switched to Rodent Deli for rats and LLL Reptile Supplies for mice.

I guess it depends on where they get them from, but we've gotten a lot of feeders over the years from Rodent Pro and we've never had a single issue. Other sources are another story. So my guess is that you just got a bad batch.

Really? Crazy. I read that they were a good site, but like AK said, I'm sure there are bad batches. What other places would you guys recommend?

Ball pythons are prone to be picky and it i better to stick to what is readily available and what works to avoid any feeding issues in the future.

Can they eat them? yes, will they? maybe.

Ah yes, very good point. I will be moving north of where I live now in August and to my knowledge there is no where in the area that has feeder mice or rats so I will be ordering off of the internet either way.

Thanks for the input everyone!