Monster Pieds?

[PiedPeddler]

No problems with Pieds eating, growing, thriving, or breeding. Have a look at the clutch records on our web site and you'll see plenty of clutches produced by female Pieds, especially the last few years since more of our holdback visual females have been reaching breeding age. We have produced visual Pied combo's with Pastel, Black Pastel, Spider, Fire, Lesser, and Yellowbelly by breeding the co-dom Het Pied males to visual female Pieds.

Our Pieds are just like any other ball pythons and the females are typically 1600-1800 grams when they produce their first clutch at ~ 3 years of age. We have had them produce at 2 years of age, but that is from individuals that are very determined to grow... We don't push meals at them hoping to accomplish that. For 2012, most of our breeding females were between 2000 and 3000 grams prior to laying eggs, only one (the oldest) bounces over 3,000 grams. Breeding adult females that gain a few hundred grams a year while producing around 700 grams worth of eggs is good enough for me!

-Paul

[John1982]

Thank's ya'll.

[Piebald Dave3]

Don't know if Het Pieds count but I will give my experience. Both het females are not very good eaters, they may eat 4-5 weeks in a row and then stop for varying amounts of time. My pastel het pied male and female spider het pied started out slow but have become very good feeders and are fianlly putting on some size.

[BallsUnlimited]

My 2009 het pied female is a beast when it comes to feeding an laid her first clutch this year of 6 eggs. she was around 2k grams shes now putting the weight back on with out a problem

2008 female pied got to 1k grams went off food for 9-10 months an now will eat when ever i offer.

2010 male pied will eat one small rat weekly but is a very slow grower. Hes only 500-600 grams now an will only miss a meal here an there.

[RestlessRobie]

My 2011 Pied girl is the best eater I have. She would eat until she would explode if I let her She is currently 800G and very healthy. I have had no problems with her and the only time she has gone off feed was when we moved her to an new larger enclosure. She was off feed about 3 weeks and then came back with a vengance.

[Serpent_Nirvana]

I would have to question a pathologist that would make such a statement after testing only a few animals from one person's collection. Certain pathogens can reek havoc not only on the immune systems, but on the physiology of the animals. To make such a broad statement with very minimal research is irresponsible in my opinion.



Is this based on what the pathologist said, what you have read, or from experience? I feel quite the opposite. I have never had a single issue in regards to health from any pied. I have a very nice group and have friends that would say the same about theirs.

I didn't say that I agreed with what the pathologist said (sorry, I should have clarified that) ... Quite the opposite. I think he was making a wild leap based on a statistical fluke, and I don't personally think that being piebald had a damn thing to do with the snakes getting pneumonia. (IIRC, there were a whopping three pied females that died, and may even have been a few other snakes in the bunch.) However, it was a wild leap speculation made in public, in front of an entire conference of veterinary pathologists, and that caused a classmate of mine to state that she had heard that certain morphs of ball pythons have problems (referring to pieds). So, it is a rumor that is currently "out there" that reptile veterinarians may come across in their literary travels ... I'm just putting it out here so that if any of you hear it, you'll know where it came from (and take it with a large heaping portion of salt). (Incidentally, I don't think that the pathologist was trying to be hurtful to the ball python industry ... I think he just got over-excited with what he saw as a potential new discovery. I've been meaning to get in touch with him anyhow ...)

Let me clarify what I meant when I said that I think that these rumors are based in truth ... I don't mean that I think that piebalds currently have any more problems than most morphs. My personal experience (based on an N = 2, my currently female pied and one that I sold) is that they eat and grow at least as well if not better than most ball morphs.

What I do mean is that it's a VERY old rumor, and I DO believe that it is based in some fact from somewhere along the line. It may just be that, in 1993 or whenever the morph was first being established, the inbreeding was so tight that it concentrated some particularly negative genes that led to "failure to thrive" in a number of piebald lines. It may have had not one single thing to do with the piebald gene itself, but was an example of "founder effect" of sorts.

I also think that it's quite possible that, as a result of deliberate outcrossing to the strongest, biggest and healthiest wild-type balls (probably as a direct result of the "rumor") piebalds are currently one of the stronger genes to work with -- as our collective experience with them all currently seems to suggest

I do wonder if it may mean that perhaps they are a morph to use some caution with when contemplating the decision to inbreed.

I apologize if I came off as slamming the morph -- believe me, that's not my intention. The biggest problem I have with piebalds is that there aren't enough of them in my snake room ....!

[Brandon Osborne]

I didn't take it as a slam on pieds at all. I was just trying to understand where you were coming from on the idea. Just want to clarify though, pieds were not proven genetic until 1997.

....and to add, snakes are non-migratory, thus inbreeding is a very natural occurance. I've had people argue with me on this subject, but it's exactly how we get locale phenotypes. Ask any diehard grayband keeper. Btw, I did not include this part out of spite. Just wanted to also share my opinion on the negative notion of inbreeding being a problem....which I do not believe in.

[Serpent_Nirvana]

I didn't take it as a slam on pieds at all. I was just trying to understand where you were coming from on the idea. Just want to clarify though, pieds were not proven genetic until 1997.

....and to add, snakes are non-migratory, thus inbreeding is a very natural occurance. I've had people argue with me on this subject, but it's exactly how we get locale phenotypes. Ask any diehard grayband keeper. Btw, I did not include this part out of spite. Just wanted to also share my opinion on the negative notion of inbreeding being a problem....which I do not believe in.

Thanks, I think I got 1993 because I believe that's the first year I ever saw an albino ball python ... For some reason it stuck in my head

I don't have a problem with inbreeding, either, as long as it's done intelligently ... For example, if you were to inbreed your "powerhouse" line of piebalds to try and fix those good traits of good appetite and growth rate in your bloodline, I think that would make total sense!

If, on the other hand, a breeder finds herself with a smallish, slow-growing, poor feeding but genetically valuable piebald (say, a super pastel super Enchi clown pied), I would recommend to her that she outcross it to a stronger bloodline rather than keeping back and using his het daughters (even if they are pastel Enchi double het pied clowns ... Which would make it mighty tempting!)

[Dragons-deluxe]

I have a Pied female from 2008 and she is about 3000 gramm.
The others from 2009 are between 1600 and 2100.

One het Pied from 2011 is now on 1100.

[interloc]

I have a pair of het pieds and they are my worst eaters. Usually every other week is what they have both been averaging. Just for comparison I have 2 snakes that HAMMER food. One is my dinker female, one is my pastel het red het hypo. Both these snakes usually get the rats that the pieds dont eat lol.


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