Monster Pieds?

[John1982]

What's your biggest pied, weight/length? I believe I read somewhere they can be problematic eaters and growers but that could really be said about ball pythons in general, not necessarily a morph's trait.. In the opinions of piebald owners, do you notice any difference in their feeding habits or growth rates compared to your other royals? Anybody's input is welcome and appreciated but I'd especially like to hear from people with hands on experience with this morph, as I have none. I'm thinking of getting a little pied project going and would like to find some robust lines if this is an issue.

[loonunit]

I have an 1800 gram 2008 pied female who LOOKS huge, but has failed to ovulate two years in a row. I also have a second, slightly smaller 2008 pied female who did ovulate, and who is a week or two away from laying 6 eggs. They're good eaters: I feed only f/t and grow them slow, so they'd both be bigger with somebody else doing the feeding.

My only problem eater pied is a 2009 male. But his pastel girlfriend just laid 6 good eggs, so he's still getting the job done. I'm glad he's a boy, not a girl!

[rabernet]

I'm sure Deborah will post here, but I know her female that she produced grew at an amazing rate. I saw her as a hatchling and the next thing I knew I was looking at a stunning adult - it felt like it was overnight. It wasn't of course, but it was impressive!

[Don]

I've the same experience as loonunit. I've got a big girl that is 2,000+ grams but she has failed to lay for me two years in a row. I've got a smaller 1500 gram female that has six eggs in the incubator. My male would breed with a hotdog if I put him in with one. He produced a double het clutch (albino) this year, knocked up a het pied girl, another pied and a spider. Last year was his first and he produced a clutch of lesser het pieds. I've not had any problems raising up pieds.

[loonunit]

My male would breed with a hotdog if I put him in with one.

[Brandon Osborne]

No problems ever.
My original 2002 het female, Big Bertha, is a whopping 5500 grams on average. Her first clutch was 9 eggs at 30 months old. Held back a pair of pieds from that breeding. She now averages 13-14 eggs a season.

2005 pied from Big Bertha. First clutch of six 2008 at roughly the same age. Now weighs over 3000 grams and produces clutches of 8-9.

2010 Pewter Pied girl. Hatch in August of 2010 and reached 1200 grams before her first birthday. She now weighs right at 2000 grams at just under 2 yrs old.

2010 Pied girl. Also hit the 1000 gram mark at less than a year old and currently weighs 1800 grams.

I haven't had a single problem with any of my Pieds. Only ones that have feeding issues for me are Pastel het Pieds...but I've had feeding trouble with every pastel I've ever owned. Look for the pied lines that don't have the issues. I'm sure not everyone will admit it if they have had problems though. Good luck!

[Serpent_Nirvana]

I've been hearing that rumor for many years, as well. I also heard a couple of new ones recently: one is that pieds may have somewhat weaker immune systems (heard that from a pathologist who necropsied a few pieds out of someone's collection that died of pneumonia) and one is that people used to think pied females would be infertile or subfertile like female deserts or caramels.

I have to believe that there is some grain of truth, however small, in some of these rumors that pied is a "weaker" gene. I don't know whether it came from the original founder animal perhaps carrying some deleterious genes that became concentrated in his original (inbred) offspring, or whether there is some (pleiotropic) aspect of the gene itself that can cause negative effects in some bloodlines or individuals. We do know that piebaldism is associated with aganglionic megacolon in many species (mice, rats, possibly horses). While I don't believe that it is associated with that in pied ball pythons (I have never heard of a pied dying from impaction for no good reason, let alone this happening often enough to suspect a link), it does indicate that the mechanisms by which the piebald coat/skin pattern appears can have other, unseen effects.

All that having been said -- in answer to the OP's question, my one piebald is a youngster yet, but she is one of the best feeders and fastest growing of my '11's -- and I bought her as a "runt!" Piebalds are probably my absolute favorite morph hands-down, and I think it's safe to say they are one of the absolute most popular. I've seen enough evidence to suggest that there are some really strong, hearty, robust piebald bloodlines out there and I think if you are careful about selecting your stock, you should be fine.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Can't tell you about every pied but I can tell you about mine.

My female het pieds is 3400 grams (that was a healthy weight last year she might weight more this year), right now she is 3000 has she is recovering from laying her eggs .

She eats like a horse and rarely has enough, apparently her offsprings 2 of which I own a male and a female pied are the same way strong appetite and very nice size (female is over 2000 grams eating like there is no tomorrow), she would probably be bigger if she did not go off feed because of breeding season but than again most of my girls do

Other hatchlings I have kept track of because buyers have kept me informed have reached 700/900 grams in their first year.

They may reach a plateau at a year 800/1000 grams but so do most animals.

So that's my experience with the pied I work with.

[Brandon Osborne]

I've been hearing that rumor for many years, as well. I also heard a couple of new ones recently: one is that pieds may have somewhat weaker immune systems (heard that from a pathologist who necropsied a few pieds out of someone's collection that died of pneumonia) and one is that people used to think pied females would be infertile or subfertile like female deserts or caramels.

I would have to question a pathologist that would make such a statement after testing only a few animals from one person's collection. Certain pathogens can reek havoc not only on the immune systems, but on the physiology of the animals. To make such a broad statement with very minimal research is irresponsible in my opinion.

I have to believe that there is some grain of truth, however small, in some of these rumors that pied is a "weaker" gene.

Is this based on what the pathologist said, what you have read, or from experience? I feel quite the opposite. I have never had a single issue in regards to health from any pied. I have a very nice group and have friends that would say the same about theirs.

[Andybill]

I dont have a large pied yet but it is a male late 2011 and addressing the feeding issue he would be a perfect example of proving the rumor that pieds are problematic eaters wrong. He is an eating machine! He is already on small rats and does not hesitate to strike from day 1.