Male bp's still not eating....8 months now

[shelliebear]

Hi,
I've posted here quite a few times about this but I'm still freaking out.
Cleo hasn't eaten in ~8 months if i remember correctly, he was at 1400 grams when he stopped eating that long ago, now after this long fast he's down to 1045ish grams. Lost 51 grams~or around that much this month alone. Nergal was around 1200 grams or a little more, after around 4 months of not eating he's down to 1042 grams, lost 50 ish this month also.
They are in the same rack system with the same temps and conditions as our female bp madison, who is younger than them (boys both estimated around 2 years old, madison ~1-1.5 years old) and now happily eating 2 small rats a week after a 3 month feed strike. She just gained around 100 grams in a month, is now 1000+.
Anyway so I have been offering the boys rats semi weekly, just frozen small rats a guy around here had excess of from rodentpro and we bought off of him. They are not interested. I tried feeding them in their tubs, tried taking them out and putting them in a completed enclosed, dark tub for 30 mins; neither of them wanted it. Madison ate it instead
Some of my concerns:
Could boys be wanting to breed with Madison? She's almost breeding size...They're never out at the same time as her though...but their tubs are right above hers.
Mantra still hisses at max and I anytime we try to get him out of the tub. He's fine when we get him out and has never struck, he just hisses. He didn't used to; what might have changed?
We don't have hides in the tubs at the moment. The snakes seem a little jumpy but like I said Madison is eating fine. Should we put hides in there to help them? Will it make a difference in dark tubs?
Temps:
Warm side ~ 87
Ambient ~ 85
Cool side ~ 75
41 quart tubs is what they're in. Aspen shavings and some good moss for humidity. Boys shed about once every 3-4 months, all in one piece, no problems as humidity is good thus far. Both boys have shed since being in the rack. Neither pass urates more than about once/2 months ish if i remember right.
Questions:
At what point do I start to worry? I checked their mouths--no bubbles or water or mucous ANYWHERE. They both make a funny click/pop sound every once in a while but it almost sounds as if they are squeezing air out of their lungs or nose. Should I go to the vet at this point? What tricks can I try to get them to eat? Live is a last resort as I hate feeding live and it makes my mother very sad , we like f/t if possible. Both have been eating rats for around a year now. Mantra would never eat mice; Nergs has eaten mice happily before.
I don't think I can get ASF's around here, it's been heck just trying to find someone who has a steady supply of normal rats every month.
Please help. I'm desperate. I don't know why they aren't eating and I'm worrying...again.
Thanks tons.
Shellie

[The Serpent Merchant]

You need to do whatever is necessary to get then to eat. Feeding live is part of this hobby, and is occasionally necessary.

I would:

Raise the hot side temp up to 90-92 degrees

Put some hides in the tubs

Feed live, mouse/rats

Stop any handling unless absolutely necessary.

A vet isn't going to be able to do much for you.

How are your cool side/ambiant temperatures so different? If at all possible raise the cool side up to 80-84 degrees.

[shelliebear]

Well it's hard to measure cool side as it drops to room temp as soon as i open the tub to measure with our temp gun, lol.
Think I might just buy a probe thermometer soon so I can keep a constant check on it for accuracy.
The room temp is ~75 so that is what cool side drops to when I open tubs, don't know if they're actually that cold, warmer if anything but no colder than 75 ever.
I don't mind feeding live if I need to. I know it comes with the trade. It's just a pain I want to avoid if I can. But if I can't, I have to do what I have to do so my babies will eat. Above all they are most important to me.
We haven't been handling except to check their mouths (very infrequent checks, just about once a month) or feeding attempts. Occasionally we have to scoot them out of the way to lift their water bowl up to clean and refill it.
What kind of hides would you recommend for adult bp's 1000+ grams in tubs?
Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it. I want my snakes to be healthy and happy no matter what it takes.

[BPLuvr]

What kind of hides would you recommend for adult bp's 1000+ grams in tubs?

RBI Hides They say 700G for a medium but I think you can go bigger. I have a 700G girl in one and she hardly fills it out.

[WingedWolfPsion]

*shakes head*
I adamantly disagree that a 'vet won't do much for you'.

If you have 2 BPs not feeding for that long, it's time to do a parasite check. That means the snakes need to get something in them, so that they'll produce a fecal sample for testing.

Carnivore care, a big syringe, and a feeding tube will do the trick. A vet can provide these. Most vets will insist on seeing an animal before running a fecal or treating it, however, in my experience, most will also be ok with seeing only one, but providing enough meds for multiple animals if you explain that they're showing the same symptoms and have been together.

I also second the recommendation to raise the heat--it's too low. The basking spot should be 90F. Air temperature on the cool side should be 80 F.

[shelliebear]

How should I raise the cool side temps? Will I just need the room itself to be warmer? And are there any tricks I should try to get them to eat--dipping rat in chicken broth, switching to mice, cutting brains open? Are they worth a shot? Are there others I should try?
Will call vet. Most of the vets around here that see reptiles are far from experts in that area. I know because one of the vets I saw said my corn snake needed a full spectrum light....but all the breeders of corns I asked on a different site said that isn't true, they don't need those lights, LOL. But I'll give it a shot regardless!