Where do you fall on the homozygous spider spectrum?

[Anatopism]

Most recent debate on the topic can be seen here: Proving Dominant Traits


I want to know where everybody falls on the topic of trying to 'prove out' perceived dominant traits, and more specifically, proving out a homozygous spider. I am more interested in the poll results, and less interested in any discussion that may follow on this thread, unless a comment is specifically to clarify a poll result, or answer. If people would like to contribute to the debate, they can add on to the thread above, or other existing threads that I'm sure are bound to come up in the future on the same topic.

[Valentine Pirate]

As I don't have any spiders at the moment I can't actively do anything with the project, but because of the lack of information I'd be interested in trying it out in the future. Just curiosity I suppose, and I'm very tired of people saying it's one way or another, when we really don't know.

[Anatopism]

Sub category ... with those of you who answered that your focus is on other morphs, is this due to fears of a lethal homozygous spider, the wobble in heterozygous spider, limitations with money, or due to simply having little interest in the Morph on general? Is the lack of spider in your projects a conscious effort, or just how things worked out? If related specifically to money, do you plan on adding spider in the future?

[RandyRemington]

I answered the "focus on other morphs". I had a pair of spiders for a while and due to interest in this debate (I might have been the first to post about the possibility spider is lethal many years ago) had planned to breed them together but eventually decided to sell the male. I needed the cage space and just wasn't that interested in producing lots of spiders due to the possibility of producing a severely wobbling baby. I did finally get my first clutch from the spider female this year (bred to a pastel yb that might also be chocolate) so should hatch my first spider next week. I don't really plan on adding more spiders in the future. I think they are a cool morph but with so many other cool morphs out there and my limited space/time/money I don't see expanding my spider collection (now watch me hatch one I just can't stand not to keep, lol). I've been meaning to add pinstripe for years but even without knowing of any pinstripe issues to hold me back I still haven't done that for the same space/time/money limitations but will probably do pinstripe before embarking on a project to satisfy my curiosity as to if spider is really homozygous lethal.

[OhhWatALoser]

I am avoiding breeding spider to spider to focus on other spider combos, until actual evidence gives or takes away merit from the lethal theory. In other words I'm letting someone else figure it out for me, due to my lack of resources to help the project. If the theory is true, I don't lose out. If it is false, then I will have a higher end combo to start the project with.

[WingedWolfPsion]

What OhhWat said--I wouldn't say I would never breed spider to spider, but unless there is some truly compelling reason to do it, I would avoid it, because of the chance that I would lose 25% of the clutch before it hatched. It's a chance that seems silly to take if it's not necessary.

[wwmjkd]

Sub category ... with those of you who answered that your focus is on other morphs, is this due to fears of a lethal homozygous spider, the wobble in heterozygous spider, limitations with money, or due to simply having little interest in the Morph on general? Is the lack of spider in your projects a conscious effort, or just how things worked out? If related specifically to money, do you plan on adding spider in the future?

I have a hard time understanding why so many rally behind the 'lethal homozygous' banner without anything to back it up. that is honestly the least of my concerns.

but to your point, I have deliberately chosen to focus on other morphs and avoid purchasing any spiders due to the wobble and the fact that there are simply other mutations that appeal to me more. many people have very valid opinions about the merits and spiders and why they prefer them (in fact I keep reading posts by one of our moderators, Emilio, about the merits of spiders when it comes to feeding and breeding and it does cause me to vacillate a bit in my own opinion). I can't say that I won't ever incorporate the gene into my collection, but for the foreseeable future the wobble, as well as the allocation of money for other morphs that I like more, means spiders won't be showing up on my doorstep.

unless the flatline and/or asystole can't be produced without the spider gene. in that case, strike all of the above.

[gsarchie]

As with with any other scientific question it comes down to statistics, period. It is all about the probabilities.

Until someone breeds and keeps records of spiderXspider pairings and then attempts to prove out the offspring, no one will be able to form an educated opinion. If people have kept these records as some suggest (and I'm sure some people have) then I would like to see them so that I could interpret them for myself. If somone could compile the data with a sample size (n) of 200 or more, and the probability (p) of producing a homozygous spider of <0.05 or lower, then I would be inclined to belive that it is improbable that any homozygous spiders exist.

Whether they exist or not, no one has proven that the responsible gene is homozygous lethal, at least not as far as I know. There could be other things that have prevented a homozygous form from being produced yet, and there could be some out there that aren't being bred or haven't been "discovered." Maybe they are sterile and can't reproduce? Is sterility common among 33% of spiders that result from a spiderXspider pairing? Short of seperating egg and sperm, taking one each with the spider gene and fertilizing the egg in vitro to see what happens, we won't know for sure.

[RandyRemington]

...I don't really plan on adding more spiders in the future. I think they are a cool morph but with so many other cool morphs out there and my limited space/time/money I don't see expanding my spider collection (now watch me hatch one I just can't stand not to keep, lol)...

I had to laugh when I got back to my incubator a few hours after posting the above and found my first spider gene baby ever had hatched:



I think she is a pastel spider yellow belly (has some dark speckling at the edge of the belly that doesn't show in this pic). Both her grandmothers have produced 14 egg clutches and reached over 4,500 grams. How can I not keep her, lol. At least I guess I can sell off her just spider mom to free up a slot for her. The last egg of the clutch seems to have something similar, maybe even with chocolate. Watch it be a male I also just can't stand not to keep and I'll end up totally eating my words and raising up a PAIR of spiders gene animals ... That’s what I get for shooting off my mouth.

[gsarchie]

If I were you I'd be more than happy to eat my words! Congrats on a beautiful baby!