Could this be IBD?

[mues155]

Well most of all I'm just at least comforted now by the fact that you spider owners can confirm that its just a bad wobble and that its pretty normal for the morph.
Me not having any experience in the matter needed some advice.
I do thank you all very much in helping me.
And I'm very glad that its rare in ball pythons. truly a horrible sounding virus.

[RobNJ]

There is no evidence that it does not lay dormant in pythons and that it can be slow onset like boas.

Bingo!!! There is a lot of misconstrued info that flies around the internet and gets passed on as if it is gospel. Truth is, IBD is at best, a very poorly understood condition. There is very little known as to how long it can lie dormant in an animal, boa or python, or how long either a boa or python can actively carry symptoms before it kills them. I think the main reason that people are so attached to the idea that it kills pythons so swiftly, is that in the majority of earlier documented IBD cases, it was in pythons. Now the tide has turned a bit, and as of somewhat recent, it has been seen primarily in boas.

[Skiploder]

Bingo!!! There is a lot of misconstrued info that flies around the internet and gets passed on as if it is gospel. Truth is, IBD is at best, a very poorly understood condition. There is very little known as to how long it can lie dormant in an animal, boa or python, or how long either a boa or python can actively carry symptoms before it kills them. I think the main reason that people are so attached to the idea that it kills pythons so swiftly, is that in the majority of earlier documented IBD cases, it was in pythons. Now the tide has turned a bit, and as of somewhat recent, it has been seen primarily in boas.

If you look hard at those early IBD cases, with rare exception, many of those cases were never confirmed via necropsy.

Without getting into too much detail (Alex and I fleshed this out in another thread), many of those early reported cases (cough cough Anapsid cough cough) were never confirmed with a necropsy and could have easily been something like OPMV.

Those early reports left an indelible mark on keepers. Now any time an animals shows neurological symptoms or a collection is ravaged by disease, the community immediately thinks "IBD".

The fact is that an animal can easily be am asymptomatic IBD carrier and die of something else...........

[JaGv]

my spider used to wobble pretty bad when i first got him he used to just sit and wobble real bad. i havent noticed it lately like it did before except for when he strikes and missed he twists his head backward.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

People tend to jump the gun way to often and way to easily when it comes to IBD.

You have a spider and what you are describing sounds very much like a spider issue.

The issue with wobble in spider is that the individual may very well have never shown any severe signs however those signs may have been brought up all of the sudden by stress.

• Stress of shipping
• Stress of temps
• ect

No sure how warm you keep your spider but try offering a hot spot around 86/88 if you can.

[Mike41793]

No sure how warm you keep your spider but try offering a hot spot around 86/88 if you can.

Funny that you mention lower temps bc i remember someone saying on here before about how theres a possibility that the spider wobble is linked to incubation temps. And that cooler incubation temps would produce spiders with little to no wobble. I also remember someone saying that it was suspected Kevin at NERD knew how to produce spiders with little to no wobble but was keeping it a secret lol.

*In no way am i saying this is true. I just remember reading it on here.*

[mues155]

People tend to jump the gun way to often and way to easily when it comes to IBD.

You have a spider and what you are describing sounds very much like a spider issue.

The issue with wobble in spider is that the individual may very well have never shown any severe signs however those signs may have been brought up all of the sudden by stress.

• Stress of shipping
• Stress of temps
• ect

No sure how warm you keep your spider but try offering a hot spot around 86/88 if you can.

See I did know about the spider wobble, I was well aware of the problem in spiders. I as being inexperienced in the morph and having one spider previously who didnt have a noticable wobble, was very surprised at this new snake being so bad. A "wobble" is one thing, but a snake thats corkscrewing and flipping its head upside down and not able to right itself looked really really bad to me.

I had no idea wobbles can get worse because of stress or just get worse as the snake gets older, etc. So I dont think I was wrong in assuming there was something wrong. Maybe I was wrong in assuming it was IBD, maybe I should have asked about neurological disorders in general I guess.
I'm sure I'm not the first person to jump to the conclusion of IBD in their snake.

I've spent quite a lot of time on the forums over the last year talking about morphs and at no time have I read that the wobble can get worse over time or get worse because of stress. If I had known that, then her arriving as cold as she did from shipping would have made sense as to why the previous owner said she had a slight wobble. Because I didnt notice her wobble being THAT bad until about 3 weeks into her quarantine. So it makes sense now.
So, again I thank everyone for your help.

Ill try lowering her hot spot.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Funny that you mention lower temps bc i remember someone saying on here before about how theres a possibility that the spider wobble is linked to incubation temps. And that cooler incubation temps would produce spiders with little to no wobble. I also remember someone saying that it was suspected Kevin at NERD knew how to produce spiders with little to no wobble but was keeping it a secret lol.

*In no way am i saying this is true. I just remember reading it on here.*

Spider wobble is link to the spider gene, it's my belief that ALL spider wobble, of course there are degrees to that wobble from very slight (which lead new owner that do not know what to look for to claim there's do not wobble) to severe (rolling around etc)

Can incubation temps make a difference in the degree of wobble out of the eggs (who knows)

The issue with wobble is while it can be very mild at first it can increase overtime and vice versa.

Stress and higher temps can trigger a more acute wobbling which is why I suggested slightly lower temps.

It's very possible in this case that it will revert back to a milder wobble only time will tell.

[MrLang]

I have also noticed if the temps pop up even a degree or 2 ( I keep mine at 88-89 anyway ) that he starts wobbling. The rest of the time I can't even tell... unless he misses a strike and his head 'bumbles' while he lines up another shot. Pretty cool stuff, I had not heard about that before but it's consistent with my experience.

[WingedWolfPsion]

Of course, what folks are thinking of as 'less severe wobble at lower temperatures' may be nothing more than 'less severe wobble due to lower metabolic rate'--in other words, it's just masking the symptoms. Just a suggestion.

As for selling spider hatchlings--evaluate their wobble. Now you know what a more severe case looks like. Check a lot of vids, and decide what a slight, moderate, or severe wobble looks like. Be forthcoming when you advertise them, and remind people that shipping stress can increase the severity of a wobble in these morphs. Those with a worse wobble may be marked down in price.

You'll sell them just fine, most people realize by now that this trait, while a little disturbing to see, is harmless and part of the morph.