Do most breeders typically raise on Live? Best age/wt to buy?

[DSM47]

Hey guys,

I'm new to the community and the hobby. I've been doing my research and am getting more and more into BP's. I visited my first show today in MD (http://www.repticon.com/) and had a blast checking out the breeders.

However, one possible concern I have is that two of the seemingly more legit breeders I spoke with told me they feed live, which wasn't what I had in mind for practical reasons. One breeder said he simply doesn't have the time for F/T, while the other said his animals are much more apt to feed on live.

The questions is, would BP's raised on live for their first year or so be able to comfortably make the switch to F/T, or is it best to stick with what they're used to?

Also, I'm interested in a BP about a 8-12 months old, somewhere in the 150-200 gram range. The smaller size is more of a preference (smaller, cuter, GF in mind), but I was also told it might serve me better as a beginner to get something at least a year old and a good feeder.

Are the younger animals much more difficult to feed? Making it worth getting something older?

Thanks so much in advance. I am absolutely clueless just trying to get started responsibly.

-DSM

[The Serpent Merchant]

Some breeders start on live, some don't... Most BP's can be switched over from live without too much trouble.

An 8-12 month old BP is going to weigh aroung 500-1000 grams, not 150-200 if you want 150-200 you are looking at a 2-3 month old BP.

BP's can be hard to start eating right out of the egg, but after that I really haven't seen much difference between a 2 month old and a yearling.

Checkout the BP care sheet: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet

[DooLittle]

Well, and 8-12 month old bp will be way more than 200 grams. Switching them to f/t from live can take a lot of time and determination. And they still may not switch. F/t vs. Live is HUGELY debatable. Boils down to you, and your snakes preferance. For a first snake, you may want to get an older one. Then you don't have a grumpy hatchling to start with if you are worried about that. Bps are awesome though, you will enjoy what ever you go with I am sure. Just make sure to read the caresheet and have everything set up and running right before you bring your new snake home, and make sure to give him a settle in period with no handling until he is eating good for you.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

[DSM47]

Some breeders start on live, some don't... Most BP's can be switched over from live without too much trouble.

An 8-12 month old BP is going to weigh aroung 500-1000 grams, not 150-200 if you want 150-200 you are looking at a 2-3 month old BP.

BP's can be hard to start eating right out of the egg, but after that I really haven't seen much difference between a 2 month old and a yearling.

Checkout the BP care sheet: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet

Ah strange, maybe it's just me but it seemed like most people I spoke with marketed a certain size with ~170 grams, which were (I was told) about a year old.

I was also a bit freaked by certain breeders being unsure about weights and ages. One said he wasn't great with dates...

[DSM47]

Well, and 8-12 month old bp will be way more than 200 grams. Switching them to f/t from live can take a lot of time and determination. And they still may not switch. F/t vs. Live is HUGELY debatable. Boils down to you, and your snakes preferance. For a first snake, you may want to get an older one. Then you don't have a grumpy hatchling to start with if you are worried about that. Bps are awesome though, you will enjoy what ever you go with I am sure. Just make sure to read the caresheet and have everything set up and running right before you bring your new snake home, and make sure to give him a settle in period with no handling until he is eating good for you.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

Yea, I mean ideally F/T works best for my lifestyle and in consideration of the GF, but ultimately I'll man-up and do what's best for the animal. Sensibilities kind of go out the window when it's done out of love (sorry mice).

I'm going tank over tub, but considering front opening door vs. something with a removable top. Any preference?

[DooLittle]

Do your research and find a rebutable breader to deal with. One of my snakes that is almost 11 months old weighed in at 635 grams a few weeks ago. Another, that is 8 months old, weighed 453 a week ago. Garrick DeMeyer at Royal Constructor Designs is great. Got a lovely animal from him.

[The Serpent Merchant]

IT all depends on how many snakes they have... if you had 100+ snakes you would probably have a hard time remembering specific snakes "specs" so to speak....

All of the BP's that I have purchased were in the 120-250 gram range. the oldest was 3.5 months old at the time. Some BP's do grow slower than others, but the average hatch weight of a BP is about 60 grams and most will put on weight fairly quickly. (mine seem to put on about 50-100 grams a month on average)

All that being said, all breeders are not created equally. finding a good breeder is the moist important thing when purchasing a BP (especially your first BP)

Here are some that I have dealt with in the past and are considered to be trusted in the industry:

http://www.jkobylkareptiles.com/

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/

http://newenglandreptile.com/nerd/

http://pythonregius.com/

Something to remember when dealing with big breeders is that they can't post all of their snakes on their sites... so if you don't see something that you like shoot them an email or give them a call, chances are they have what you are looking for.

[BFE Pets]

I am only a hobby breeder but I try my best to feed f/t. keep in mind though the larger breeders may have a couple houndred snakes or more to feed and trying to do f/t would be a multi day event for them. I start my hatchlings off like this:
3 days post shed: live rat fuzzy
if they eat we do the same every 3 days for the first month as long as they eat.
if they don't eat the rat fuzzy I try every 3 days for 2 wthe eeks.
If after 2 weeks they havent eaten a rat fuzzy then I try live mouse hoppers.
generally the mouse hopper kicks the slow feeders off to a good start.
after a month of eating every three days I start offering pre-killed food and after two or three consecutive feedings I do f/t and usually by then even the stubborn have started taking rat pups of the appropriate size. My collection varies from 30 to 35 snakes and on a good feed day it still can take me 2+ hours to feed. so I completely understand why large scale breeders only feed live. as for the 150 200 gram 8 to 10 month ball..... ive only seen that age & size on really stubborn feeders so i'd steer clear of those. I have babies that hatched on 4/10 and are hitting 160 grams already. on the other hand I have one that has only eaten once since hatching and it still weighed in at 56 grams empty.

[DooLittle]

Ok, if (more like when) you get more bps, you will probably find yourself wishing you gone tub to start. I started out with tanks, and feeding f/t. Now a few years and 5 more bps later. I have tubs, and do live or p/k. I would never go back to tanks and love the tubs so much better. They hold temps and humidity better, and take up less space, easier to clean. As far as going tank because you want to see the snake, not going to happen as bps arent good display animals. They spend most of their time hiding. The saying is a hiding bp is a happy bp. (Check out Reptile Basics for the best hides) But, to each his own. Do some reading, gather some opinions, and decide what you want to do.

[The Serpent Merchant]

I'm going tank over tub, but considering front opening door vs. something with a removable top. Any preference?

Tanks can be very difficult to maintain proper temperatures and humidity in. I always recommend tubs or PVC cages (I use PVC cages)

Here is some good information on tubs and PVC cages

Tubs: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Basics...*DUW*

PVC cages: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...With-Pictures!

If you use a Heating pad on any type of cage you will need a thermostat for it... stay away from the overpriced junk sold at pet stores, you can find almost everything online that is cheaper and better quality.

Here are 2 good thermostats:

http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR.../dp/B000NZZG3S

http://spyderrobotics.com/

The herpstats cost more, but they are much more accurate, have more features/capabilities, and are much safer

In any cage setup you will need a good thermometer/hygrometer

The dial type are known to be inaccurate and short lived you will want a digital thermometer. Many people use these, they cost $12 at Walmart and they measure 2 temperatures (hot side and cool side) as well as humidity



Good hides are one of the most important things in a BP cage, they need to be tight fitting and make the BP feel secure. I like these, they are cheap, durable, easy to clean, and look good (though not natural looking)

http://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes

This picture shows the mini, small, and medial size hides with a 200 gram pastel BP for size comparison... the Pastel Bp was using the small size at the time the picture was taken.



You want to avoid the half log hides as they do not make the snake feel secure and are prone to growing nasty things on them due to the high humidity needed in a BP cage (40%-60%)