This isnt abuse is it?

[Riv]

Aspen is just so messy and expensive. But, I suppose if thats what works best.

[sleepygeckos]

I wouldn't say "abuse" but my first thought was rats burrow to keep cool and the deck overhead isn't going to keep the temperature down. The second was, "eww, bugs" as keeping warm blooded animals were I live would draw in deer ticks faster than a buffet sign. The last thought was the snake is only as healthy as its food and its food is only as healthy as what it was eating...

I guess I'm repeating what everyone else said, but adding: Our local animal control laws for dogs and rabbits (I know those specifically because we've called our neighbors out and the rabbit didn't make it ) would say you aren't abusing, but if there is a smell you could get a warning for general property laws.

[wolfy-hound]

I forgot.. towels are a bad idea as the rats can shred them and get threads tangled around limbs which leads to amputated limbs or death. Especially pinkies can get tangled in a thread.

I would not use reptile carpet. Same reason plus it's not edible. If you want a cloth in the cage, go with polar fleece type fabrics that can't unravel(it's not a woven thread cloth). I buy 'throw blankets' at the Dollar Stores for $5 and cut them into small squares for the rats.

Breeding females seem to chew up everything(a nesting instinct?) here. I had some that loved their hammocks and blankies... until the first babies. Now they chew to pieces everything.

[Sita]

I forgot.. towels are a bad idea as the rats can shred them and get threads tangled around limbs which leads to amputated limbs or death. Especially pinkies can get tangled in a thread.

I have personal experience with this happening. When I raised rats, I also used strips of old towels for nesting material. They'd chew them up just like yours do, but one day when I checked on the babies, I found one whose tail was tangled in the threads. I had to cut it loose, but it might have been that way as long as 12 hours, and part of his tail ended up dying and falling off due to lack of circulation.

As for the dog food part of it, there are dyes used in dog foods that build up in the rat's system and can cause health problems in the snakes they are fed to. I want to say it was Red 40 that they studied? I'll try to find the link, but it won't be until tomorrow; I have to work early in the AM.

[suzuki4life]

IF a neighbor complains about an outdoor problem...then you have a problem.

But for someone in the house you are sharing to complain to the point of fearing them to contact the authories on you....either you are doing something REALLY bad or you need to have them move or find a new residence for yourself.

My ex wife complained about my motorcycles and guns....she's my ex wife now. My motorcycles and guns are still here and the idea of the snakes just sets her off. I won't live my life to suit her, I live it for me.

[MarkS]

As for the dog food part of it, there are dyes used in dog foods that build up in the rat's system and can cause health problems in the snakes they are fed to. I want to say it was Red 40 that they studied? I'll try to find the link, but it won't be until tomorrow; I have to work early in the AM.

Please do post this, it's been talked about for years but I've NEVER been able to find anything scientific to back it up. This story has been around so long that I've got a feeling it's more urban legend then fact.

[Sita]

Here's a few detailing the effects of two types of red dye on the rats and mice. The username and password for the full text is at the top of the page.

http://www.feingold.org/Research/dye-studies.html

I can't find the one I remember reading that had studied the effects of feeding rodents that had been fed dog food on snakes. It may be too recent to be in the free archives online, but I'll look some more.

Even if I can't find that one again, just those studies on the effects on rodents would be enough for me to not want to feed those rodents to my snakes!

[SquamishSerpents]

I wish I could keep them inside, but I have 5 room mates including my fiance, so every room is pretty packed with someones stuff. I even turned my dining room into the snake and fish room. When I put the rats in there everyone kind of put their foot down XD rats being next to the dinner table and all. There isnt any room in my room, the basement is another bedroom, and I dont have a garage. Ill be bringing them in during the winter months and keeping them in the living room. Because theyre outside the smell doesnt bother anyone but when I move them in Ill have to change it just about once every day and light candles often XDD.

As far as the diet goes, there is a reason I chose alpo over the nutritionally complete option.

1)I work at petsmart, and a bag of alpo that will last me 2 months with a small colony is less than $20. Normally I would bite the bullet and pay more for better feeders, but all of my balls are still pretty small. the biggest being on medium rats.
2)Because they are all so small I plan on prekilling and frezzing nearly all of the rats that are born as soon as they hit the appropriate weight. I will keep 1 male and 2 females, and prekill the two breeders feeding them to my burmese python whose still small enough to eat rats about their size XD.

By the time I run out of frozen rats, the 3 that I kept SHOULD be well on their way to birthing 2 new rounds. and the cycle will repeat itself.

So yes the alpo can cause liver damage over time and it isnt nutritionally complete, but not one of these rats are going to live long enough to experience that. So alpo is both cost effective and not any more harmful than rat block in the short period of life that they have.

I have considered using chicken wire to kind of cage them in on the underside of the deck and make a little door so I can get in. That would make my room mate feel better about the cats at the very least.

I don't know if it's just me but...I do NOT light candles in my house, ever. Nor do I burn incense. All those nice, warm, pleasant smells are made with harmful chemicals. Your snakes really only have 1 fully functioning lung. So personally, I'm not willing to risk my snakes inhaling those harmful chemicals.

I also stay away from cologne, perfume, scented air freshners (especially aerosol!) because I find them unnecessary and completely obnoxious. Especially when you get stuck in an elevator with somebody who went Axe-happy! (aka, every man who ever wears axe, ever)

Anyways, just thought I'd point that out, since nobody else has.

FOR SURE I'd switch your rats substrate away from newspaper. Just because YOU can't smell the ammonia because they're outside, doesn't mean the rats aren't still breathing it it. Newspaper is not absorbent at all. I use a layer of pine pellets, topped with a layer of shavings.

It sounds like if I were in your situation I'd just stick with buying frozen rodents. The lack of space, combined with the intolerance from your roommates, and the very cold night-time temperatures even at this time of year, just doesn't sound like ideal rat-breeding conditions to me.

[FoxReptiles]

I agree with SquamishSerpents. It sounds like you'd be better suited to feed F/T with your space limitations and husbandry concerns. By ordering in bulk online or from a local breeder, you could probably limit costs. Especially if you consider your current time/money investments each month maintaining your colony (not to mention not having to battle the roommates.)

[Mike41793]

I also stay away from cologne, perfume, scented air freshners (especially aerosol!).
Especially when you get stuck in an elevator with somebody who went Axe-happy! (aka, every man who ever wears axe, )

I find them obnoxious too! They make me gag!
And yes axe is nasty!!!! It makes me have an allergic reaction, i start coughing and crap!