little zoo together

[Rob]

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@ the OP- this is the ideal BP room pit has here. As much as us as humans think giving snakes a lot of room to be free ball pythons get a sense of security from tight spaces. I get your heart is in the right place, but I really urge you to do your homework on BPs. The set up you have is asking for problems, and a ball python soaking all the time throws up red flags ( mites, scale problems, poor husbandry. I get you like the idea of all,of your animals living in one big tank and it is a fun idea just not a good one.
Also I get some people think tanks are more esthetically pleasing, but personally nothing looks better then a rack full of BPs.

[PitOnTheProwl]

Just an A.D.D. thought.......................... snake soaking all the time could also be that this is the only place the snake feels secure. I have seen smaller snakes use their water bowls as hides

[CherryPython]

Just thought I would post the snake room too.

I've got a male in a tub and a female in a viv, the only colour in their environments is the fake foliage (which I personally don't think they're too impressed with), and themselves. They tend to be on their own, in a tight, dry, dark space. When we get more, racks may be the way to go for us (depending on how easy temps are to achieve and keep at a steady level) and this rack set up is lush

[Mike41793]

all i was really wanting to do was to make her home more "wild" like.

well im sorry that i have a verry big imagination and just want to make the animals feel at home.

Im not gunna go through that whole paragragh and correct you on everything because i dont think that will help. Im just gunna address these two things. In the wild bps live in rodent burrows and termite mounds. They go into a burrow, eat the rodent occupant, then wait until theyre hungry again and they move on to the next burrow. The only other times they move is to mate or thermoregulate. These burrows are very small and very tight. They like this because it makes them feel secure. So if you want your bp to feel "like shes in the wild" she needs a warm, dry and tight hide. And the animals in that tank need to seperated. In the wild they wouldnt all live together so if you care about them and want your animals to feel like theyre "in the wild" you'll seperate them.

[CherryPython]

Im not gunna go through that whole paragragh and correct you on everything because i dont think that will help. Im just gunna address these two things. In the wild bps live in rodent burrows and termite mounds. They go into a burrow, eat the rodent occupant, then wait until theyre hungry again and they move on to the next burrow. The only other times they move is to mate or thermoregulate. These burrows are very small and very tight. They like this because it makes them feel secure. So if you want your bp to feel "like shes in the wild" she needs a warm, dry and tight hide. And the animals in that tank need to seperated. In the wild they wouldnt all live together so if you care about them and want your animals to feel like theyre "in the wild" you'll seperate them.

^^^ This

[Wes]

Poor thing... I bet that is one freaked out little snake.

On another note, If we did the same thing with a person I bet it would make for one interesting reality show. Take a person and about 6-8 other mammals from around the world, that are possibly sick, that you could possibly co habitat with, and lock them all in a 14ft x 14ft room together. Wonder how long the person would survive...

[WingedWolfPsion]

Ok, I'm going to try to explain this for the OP, because it doesn't seem like anyone's put all the pieces together (though there are lots of pieces in the previous posts).

1) Ball pythons do not get depressed. You said you almost lost her. That sounds very serious...it sounds like she's sick. Is she eating, as of right now? Has she eaten since you made this change? Was she off food after the move from the window? Ball pythons are sensitive to changes in their environment, and often stop eating when something changes, until they get used to it. They won't eat if they're under a lot of stress. However, if the snake is losing a lot of weight, and its feeding habits have always been sporadic, then illness is likely. Internal parasites are the most common cause.

2) You said you took her to a vet, and the vet said she was healthy. Did the vet do a fecal exam for parasites? If not, and it wasn't even suggested, then as other people have said, please find a new vet. The new reptile specialist criteria for vets was only created a couple of years ago now, and there are very few reptile specialists out there. As a result, most vets who treat reptiles studied it on the side, and they can range from very good, to dangerously bad. It's very sad, but true--most of the people on this forum may know more about ball python husbandry than your vet does. ARAV.org can help you find a good reptile vet. Judging by your vet's agreement with your mixed-species enclosure, you have a very bad reptile vet. He should stick to cats and dogs.

3) If your ball python didn't have parasites before, she likely does now. You put wild-caught anoles and tree frogs into her enclosure, and those animals come loaded with internal parasites. In a captive environment, these parasites can build up to lethal levels. In order to keep them alive and healthy in the long term, all wild-caught animals should be treated for parasites before you put them into a permanent enclosure. Even anoles. (The cost of an animal has nothing to do with the cost of its care, which is a very important thing to keep in mind).

4) Ball pythons live on the African Savannah, which is dry and hot. They escape the dryness and heat by spending their days (and often most of their nights) inside of rodent burrows and termite mounds. The humidity inside of a rodent burrow can be high, but the flooring is usually dry. Ball pythons do not handle damp bedding well. They can develop blister disease or other skin infections, which are very dangerous, when kept on bedding that is too damp. Humidity for a ball python should be around 60%. Temperatures should be 80F with a 90F basking area. Ball pythons, being an animal that lives in burrows, don't prefer large enclosures, although they are all individuals, so tolerance of such things varies. They do need small, single-entrance hides--they should be just big enough for the snake to squeeze into. They like to feel surrounded on all sides, and that there's no room for anything else in there, to feel secure. Secure ball pythons eat, insecure ones often don't.

5) Your snake has become more active because she wants to leave. A high activity level indicates discomfort in a ball python. It's normal for these snakes to spend most of their time in their hide, resting. Constant roaming is a sign of distress. Stress is dangerous for reptiles, particularly if, as seems to be indicated by your comments on her 'depression', she is already sick. She's not happy having other animals crawling on her, and being in a damp place, so she would like to find a more suitable habitat.

6) The poor little anoles and frogs need consideration as well. A great big enclosure will work for them, and you can make a pretty naturalistic vivarium out of it. I dare say such a big enclosure is even sufficient to allow you to keep those two kinds of animals together, if there are plenty of plants and cover.

However....you did not deparasitize them first. This means you have to rip the whole thing down and bleach it, and throw away everything you can't bleach or bake. The animals have to be kept on paper towel with bare branches for a couple of weeks while you administer the worming medications your vet will prescribe. They have to be kept scrupulously clean during this process. Once it is done, then you can build a fancy planted vivarium for them.

Not only that, but the anoles require a good UVB light in addition to heat and humidity. Insects should be gut-loaded and dusted with calcium powder. Never feed them anything bigger than the space between their eyes (anoles shouldn't be eating crickets larger than 1/4").

In conclusion, you've simply made some mistakes, and some of them may prove to be expensive--in particular, you underestimated the cost for care and consequences of those frogs and anoles. I suggest you put at the top of your 'to do' list, first, finding a new, knowledgeable reptile vet. Second, buy books on ball python, anole, and tree frog care. These are three different animals with different needs. You should have an in-depth understanding of how to take care of them. Rid the animals of parasites, which they can carry without being killed in the wild, because they don't spend time around their own poop. In captivity, they are constantly re-exposed to the parasite eggs in their own droppings. Assume all of them have them, now.

Your ball python never got mites from its bedding or cage. Snake mites only come from other reptiles, you see. They can be tracked in on supplies from pet stores, pant legs, etc. I hope you made sure every last one of them was gone, because they, too, can be lethal if they go unchecked.

[wolfy-hound]

To the OP...

You can do a 'terrarium' for your snake. But the one you've made is highly inappropriate. The humidity, the substrate, etc are not appropriate for the species.

Your vet is a moron. The ball python will not eat the fish, should not be in that environment and should not be around wild caught animals. I suspect that your vet is either a complete idiot, or he is deliberately indulging you in order to be able to charge you MORE money when the snake continues to have issues.

The mites only come from other reptiles. They are not caused by substrate. Likewise, a proper substrate should not cause your snake to "eat" it.

If you want to do a large "natural" enclosure, you CAN, but you need to do it properly for the snake's health. That includes proper levels of heat and humidity, a LOT of hiding spots that are very small and secure for her to hide away in whenever she wants to, and no wild caught animals spreading parasites and stressing her. Do you know what the signs of stress are in a ball python?

My suggestion would be to immediately find a proper vet, and get the snake checked for parasites. Then I would tear down everything in the enclosure and rebuild it from the "ground up" to be for a ball python. It will look cool to you and be okay for the snake. Even though it's easiest to keep a happy healthy ball in a tub/rack environment, a natural enclosure can work too, with lots of effort and with it properly set up.

I'm sure plenty of folks can advise you on how to better set up a natural enclosure. No one here wants to "diss" you or insult you, they are only thinking of your PET first. We are all very passionate about ball pythons and want only the best of care for them, above and beyond the feelings of the owners.

I'm sure you could see people getting upset if someone posted how happy their ball python was in a nice wire bird cage, right? Your set up is wrong, and folks are just fussing because the snake is the one that will end up suffering.

[GoingPostal]

I don't understand how on earth you are cleaning this setup? It's impossible to disinfect all that junk and all those animals pooping and peeing, dead crickets, etc. Throwing a bunch of plants and animals from across the world together is not natural in the least. I have my bp in a "large" cage, it's 4 feet across and he spends 99% of the time in a hide doing nothing because that's what healthy bp's do. I hope you take the excellent advice given, get your snake a proper setup and find a decent herp vet because I agree, he's an idiot, no one in their right mind would say a bp would eat fish or support keeping one like that. It is asking for scale rot, parasites and other issues.

[Slim]

Kendra, I believe in giving every person the chance to do the right thing. In this thread you have been given multiple chances to take some of the best ball python husbandry advice available...not just on the internet, but on the planet. Your last post shows that you have no intention of taking that advice, and frankly shows a blatant lack of regard for not only your ball python, but also for the other species of reptile you have chosen to toss together in your 200 gallon theater of the absurd.

so lets start by asking questions on ball pythons.
[B]1. WHY CANT MY BALLPYTHON HAVE ALOT OF ROOM?
all i was really wanting to do was to make her home more "wild" like.

While there is nothing particularly wrong with your BP having ALOT OF ROOM, what does having a lot of room have to do with you forcing your will on your snake and making it live in your own twisted version of reptile Fantasy Island? Your snake could have plenty of room in an enclosure of her own. Why is following solid BP husbandry advice so hard for you? Also please explain to me how many "wild" ball pythons live in a rain forest?

then mac dissapeared. and once again siss quit eating.

Please explain to me why you think these two events are related? Your answer could go a long way in explaining a lot of things...or, maybe not, but I would like to know.

WHY WOULD MY BALL PYTHON WANT TO "SOAK" ALL THE TIME?

Why did your snake get mites? Answer that, and you'll have a head start on answering the soaking question. In addition, some BP just like to soak...that's no reason build Jurassic Park in your living room.

the vet said that top soil is fine for her and the plants are not harmful to her and actually are good cause they promote oxagyn. he said that the fish are ok but they would probably end up food for the snake.

OM Holy G!!! Jeebus and The Fishermen protect us!!!
There is really no delicate way to put this...Your Vet may be well meaning, but he or she seriously rode the short bus to Veterinary College.

the treefrog likes to stay over by the water and eats the nats and flys that end up in the tank.

I can't even imagine why nobody here things this isn't a good environment for your ball python....

i am taking advice on helping everyone live together.

Who in the unmitigated name of anything you hold holy gave you advice on helping all these mismatched herps live in the same glass sided house of horrors you call a habitat? Who? By name? Please?

i wash the inside of the tank glass every other day so noone is drinking nasty water off the glass.

If you have water (condensation, actually) on the inside of your glass that you have to wash off every day, your enclosure is far too humid for your ball python.

i was not trying to be mean but all that i was getting was that i needed to take the snake out

No shizzle! Maybe that's because you need to take the snake out...

well im sorry that i have a verry big imagination and just want to make the animals feel at home.

I can see how your tree frogs feel at home, but please explain to me how your ball python, a native of west African grasslands, feels at home in your 200 gallon petri dish?

i also looked at the care sheets and the only one that was out of the temp is the chubby frog

You're telling me you read the care sheets for all your animals and that's what you got out of them? Wow...just, Wow