Switched to F/T -- Too Large?!?! - Some Concerns - Please Advise

[Vinny 4]

I got my first baby Ball Python in early december and he was already eating larger size mice at the pet store. When I got him I asked the guy in the reptile shop to feed the tank of baby BPs, so I can pick one that would eat right away. There were about 5 or 6 in the same tank, yes i know this shouldn't be done, but it was a pretty good pet store, more specific to reptiles and also fish, called Slither and Swim in Connecticut.

They all pretty much ate right away after he knocked the mice out and offered them to each of the snakes. It was also good because I got to see which ones had aggression strikes, which ones ate right away, and which ones didn't take the mouse. Well i picked one that ate right away, strike and coil, no aggression strikes...

I've fed him every 7 days, in a seperate tub, and he always took the mouse within a few minutes of the mice going into the tub and wondering around (i fed them live, not stunned or knocked out)...

Since then I've read that rats are much more nutritious, and have decided to switch him over to the smallest rats i can find in my area. I was able to find 40g small rats at Petco in a package of 3. Also by switching to f/t, I was going to make the switch to feeding in his enclosure (with eco-earth substrate, which I was a little weary of)...

Last week I fed him one of the f/t small rats (advertised as 40g on the package), which I wasn't able to weigh to make sure since I didn't have a scale. I also had no measurement in weight for the snake to go by the 15% rule, but the width of the rat was about equal to the thickest part of the snake. I didn't feed him the week before on purpose so he would be hungry for the transition from live to f/t. He was definitely interested and smelling around but he was probably confused since the rat was already dead, and not a mouse. I kept offering it to him with tongs but he would come up smell it then turn around, he kept coming back but not striking or coiling. I was dangling and wiggling the mouse with the tweezers gently to try and trick him into thinking it was moving around. After a while, my hands started to get tired so I left the mouse on top of his hide. after about 10 minutes he kept going to the mouse and checking it out, but not striking. He then opened his mouth and bit down on the middle part of the body, moved it around a bit then let go. He then did the same thing but with one of the rats front arms, letting go again. I took the rat out and blew dry the head to heat it up again some more. He bit down on the body again, dragging him around for a bit, then finally found the head and took it down. Everything seemed to go well after he found the head. The rat was a little larger in length then the mice i was feeding prior, but the girth was pretty much the same as the snake, and also the large mice he was eating. No problems from what I could observe.

I haven't had a scale until this week, and I weighed him today before I fed him.

He weighed in at 172 grams.

I then weighed the rat before i fed him, and it was in fact 40 grams (as advertised on the bag).

So according to the 15% rule, i should intact be feeding 25.8 gram rats/mice.

Since he ate the 40g rat 7 days ago, I figured id try again with another 40g rat since it was already defrosted (plus i can't find smaller, pretty much tried everywhere in my area for live or frozen)...

He did pretty much the same thing as he did last week... Biting in all the wrong places and not coiling. He would bite, figure out that he got the wrong spot, circle around a little bit and then do it again. I watched for over a half hour, maybe 40 mins, and I took the mouse out a 3 different time to heat up the head again, hopping he would be able to find it. He bit it a few times again, this time actually coiling it a bit (but not like he did with live, but then letting go) After a while I thought he wasn't going to eat it so I figured I would leave the room and shut the lights off. I came back about 10-15 min later and he had the head and neck in his mouth, moving on the the body, and he soon finished it off. From his body position and where I left the rat, I don't think he coiled it before he started eating.

He always had great a great feeding response with live mice, always striking and coiling as he should to kill them. But now with the f/t he doesn't strike hard, or strike at all for that matter, he slowly goes up to it and calmly opens his mouth and bites down. Im finding it odd that he's taking so long to find the head, and trying to bite on the body and arms instead.

Can this be normal?

Is he not striking or coiling because he figured out that there not alive?

Any reasons why he can't seem to find the head of the rat for an abnormally long time?

Can I be doing something wrong?

Is it ok if I stick with the 40g small frozen rats every 7 days since he successfully ate them 2 times, and they are still about the same girth as the snake

Also, does everyone offer the rat with tongs or a hemostat, or just place it in the cage on top of their hide or something, so the snake can get it on their own when it is ready?

I definitely need to invest in a hemostat, at the rate this guy is going, he's going to give me carpal tunnel from squeezing the tweezers for such a long time lol

Sorry that this turned into such a long post , I didn't want to leave anything out...

Thanks in advance

[Vinny 4]

He wouldn't strike or bite when I was offering it with tongs, the only bites and semi-coils were when I placed it on his hide.

I thought I was lucky, and "out of the water", since I successfully got him to eat f/t last week on the first try without a refusal, but now that it look even longer this week I am getting worried that the switch to f/t is now going to be a hassle every week ... I don't know if its in my mind or not but he has already seemed to plump up a bit between his last live mouse, shed, and his first small rat within the last few weeks :tax:

[Emily Hubbard]

I just fed my snake her first 50gm rat and she is 300gm. By the weight rule, your guy is pretty. small for them, however, you saw him prove that snakes can swallow a lot more than we give them credit for. Personally, I did not feel comfortable feeding my snake a meal yours is getting until she was almost twice his size. HOWEVER, that was me, I am not going to tell you it is wrong. But I think his hesitation MAY be because it was a big meal and it took him some time to figure out how to go about it. But he did it, which is very impressive....

Getting them on rats sooner rather than later is always a good thing. If you have a 1500+gm snake someday that is eating mice, that is a whooooole lot of mice you have to feed on one sitting. Also, your snake successfully made the switch to rats AND f/t in the same try, which is an epic win! Also, I have heard a lot of stories about snakes who started on live not coiling for f/t. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, it just seems some actually do know the difference between live and dead and will eat it anyway, just save the energy. My snake has only had f/t and she strikes and coils every time, and there and some who have switched who will still strike and coil. If yours stopped, he's just a little smarter and knows not to waste his time.

All I can tell you is that my snake ate adult mice until she was 300gm (two days ago) and then I gave her a 50gm rat. I don't have enough experience to tell you that you are feeding meals that are too big, I can just tell you that I personally did not, which doesn't make either of us wrong. But you certainly have a ball python that is not a picky eater, which is a VERY good sign, not everyone is so lucky!

[Vinny 4]

I just fed my snake her first 50gm rat and she is 300gm. By the weight rule, your guy is pretty. small for them, however, you saw him prove that snakes can swallow a lot more than we give them credit for. Personally, I did not feel comfortable feeding my snake a meal yours is getting until she was almost twice his size. HOWEVER, that was me, I am not going to tell you it is wrong. But I think his hesitation MAY be because it was a big meal and it took him some time to figure out how to go about it. But he did it, which is very impressive....

Getting them on rats sooner rather than later is always a good thing. If you have a 1500+gm snake someday that is eating mice, that is a whooooole lot of mice you have to feed on one sitting. Also, your snake successfully made the switch to rats AND f/t in the same try, which is an epic win! Also, I have heard a lot of stories about snakes who started on live not coiling for f/t. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, it just seems some actually do know the difference between live and dead and will eat it anyway, just save the energy. My snake has only had f/t and she strikes and coils every time, and there and some who have switched who will still strike and coil. If yours stopped, he's just a little smarter and knows not to waste his time.

All I can tell you is that my snake ate adult mice until she was 300gm (two days ago) and then I gave her a 50gm rat. I don't have enough experience to tell you that you are feeding meals that are too big, I can just tell you that I personally did not, which doesn't make either of us wrong. But you certainly have a ball python that is not a picky eater, which is a VERY good sign, not everyone is so lucky!

Yes, I am definitly happy he made the switch, I am just kind of nervous about the whole " regurge /then not eating for a whole or ever again" part, which I've seen numerous times on the forums for various reasons, even besides pray size.


Thanks you for your input, I really appreciate it...

hopefully some of the veterans that have been around a while and have had many snakes can chime in, and let me knowif what I am doing is acceptable, or potentially dangerous by giving the snake a larger than recommended f/t rat.

[Crazy4Herps]

Ball pythons are funny when it comes to food in general. I'm very glad yours is taking f/t rats! That's certainly more than can be said about some. I have seen this behavior (only eating f/t when it is left in the cage overnight or for a period in the dark) in several snakes. I don't entirely understand it, but as keepers we have to figure out the individual snake's needs and preferences and go with what works. Not every snake is going to be the same, and the guidelines you typically read for feeding f/t do not apply to all snakes.

Can I be doing something wrong?

Nope, you're doing everything fine.

Is it ok if I stick with the 40g small frozen rats every 7 days since he successfully ate them 2 times, and they are still about the same girth as the snake

Absolutely. Also, in regard to your most recent post, it is normal to see a dramatic increase in girth immediately after switching to larger food.

Also, does everyone offer the rat with tongs or a hemostat, or just place it in the cage on top of their hide or something, so the snake can get it on their own when it is ready?

Depends on the snake. Most of mine only take food from tongs, though some will only eat f/t if they are left alone with it in the dark (I typically place a towel over the cage if I need to do work in the room). And my boas really don't care either way; they're pigs.

And by the sounds of it, I don't think you really need hemostats, if he won't take food from tongs anyway? I just use salad tongs for feeding ball pythons, I've never had any issues with a ball going after my hand during feeding.

[Emily Hubbard]

Yeah, I would suggest just giving him smaller rats, but I know they are really hard to find in small quantities, that is why mine was on mice so long. I have a tiny freezer and only one snake, I can't buy 100 rats online. haha. IF you can find smaller rats, I would say that is your best course of action, but I know from experience that is a big "if."

[Crazy4Herps]

And I don't think you need to worry about a regurge. It sounds like the rats are a decent size. I prefer to go by the looks of it in relation to the snake's girth as opposed to the 15% rule.

Maybe post a picture of the snake next to one of the rats?

[RestlessRobie]

My large girlwas a live eater whenwe got her and she does theexact same thing with F/T she bite the rat drags it into her hide and eats it so I say normal behavior for some snakes

[Vinny 4]

Ball pythons are funny when it comes to food in general. I'm very glad yours is taking f/t rats! That's certainly more than can be said about some. I have seen this behavior (only eating f/t when it is left in the cage overnight or for a period in the dark) in several snakes. I don't entirely understand it, but as keepers we have to figure out the individual snake's needs and preferences and go with what works. Not every snake is going to be the same, and the guidelines you typically read for feeding f/t do not apply to all snakes.


Nope, you're doing everything fine.


Absolutely. Also, in regard to your most recent post, it is normal to see a dramatic increase in girth immediately after switching to larger food.


Depends on the snake. Most of mine only take food from tongs, though some will only eat f/t if they are left alone with it in the dark (I typically place a towel over the cage if I need to do work in the room). And my boas really don't care either way; they're pigs.


And by the sounds of it, I don't think you really need hemostats, if he won't take food from tongs anyway? I just use salad tongs for feeding ball pythons, I've never had any issues with a ball going after my hand during feeding.

I thought i was going to have to leave it over night this second time, but i came back like 15 minutes later and she already was getting it down. My BP doesn't seem to be too shy in front of me because it keeps biting and attempting it, so I guess it just needs some time to get going and find the head.

HaHa I guess you may be right about the hemostats. I don't know why, but I kind of have it in my mind it has something to do with how I am offering it, since mostly everyone from what I read or see in feeding videos they are offering it with hemostats or tongs and the snake strikes the head and coils up, which is what I want. At least that would be a little exciting and more natural for the snake.

I loved watching him strike and coil a live mouse, and hear the streak the mouse gives when the snake strikes hard.

If I would be able offer with hemostats and actually get the snake to strike, and not just calmly and gently bite it rat, then maybe he would get the head and coil up. Thats why I thought I might need them.

Plus the first time I was offering the f/t rat with the 10" tongs I have, the snake would come up and smell the head, then move up to the body then up towards the tail, coming up pretty high in the 10 gal. tank I have the snake in in, and I was thinking that since the tongs aren't that long maybe the snake was picking up the heat or some sort of scent from my hand. maybe an 18" hemostat would solve that, or maybe he just wanted to get out of the cage and get some exercise lol.

[Vinny 4]

Yeah, I would suggest just giving him smaller rats, but I know they are really hard to find in small quantities, that is why mine was on mice so long. I have a tiny freezer and only one snake, I can't buy 100 rats online. haha. IF you can find smaller rats, I would say that is your best course of action, but I know from experience that is a big "if."

Do you (or anyone else) know any places online that I can order small quantities of 25-30 gram rats?

I'm guessing not, since you mentioned you can't buy 100 rats online and store them just for one snake, you weren't able to lol ..

I only have one snake as well, and even if I did have the room, I wouldn't need 100.
The snake will probably be up to eating one or two size bigger rats by the time I'm even able to finish the 100 rats haha.