Do you avoid morphs with known genetic flaws?

[DooLittle]

Also, just to contradict what is written above, here are the links to back what I wrote.
post 21, by interloc-
Are you saying stop breeding spiders all together. That would be a huge mistake IMO. A bad wobbler can produce a very very mild wobble and vice versa. So it's not like w could jus brew it out of em. Spider combos are amazing IMO. I would be way sadder to never be able to see a spider ever again. Also the wobble increases their personality. My spider is the best snake to handle our of my collection. He acts more like a boa. Very inquisitive and loves exploring. Everyone needs a spider in their collection. If not for breeding with, for enjoyment as part of the family.
This proves what I said about people using the 'more personality' excuse.

post 25, by DrDooLittle-
Like others have said, don't let that stop you from getting something with the spider gene.
This proves what I said about people backing each other up, like peer pressure, against the people saying that spiders should not be bred.

I love my bee, thank you. She the sweetest snake in my collection. And hasn't had a noticeable wobble since about 2 weeks after we got her. There is nothing wrong with her. She is friendly, and eats like a champ. Never missed a meal.


Of course, posts number 4,7,12, and 13 were not thanked, just negatively replied to. The rest were thanked multiple times, showing how people back each other up, making it not seem as bad.

Here is a link to the thread.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...8-wobble/page3

I'm not trying to turn this into another argument page. If you are able to try to contradict any of the things I wrote, try to.

[DooLittle]

Dang, sometimes posting on a phone is pita..lol. To genetics breeder.... I love my bee, thank you. She is my favorite snake in my collection. She is very friendly and sweet. She hasn't had a noticeable wobble since 2 weeks after we got her, and she eats like a champ. Never missed a meal. There is nothing wrong with her.

[snake lab]

Hey gb just out of curiosity. What animals are you working with? Cause i really am intrested to know what species of animals are free and clear of any genetic flaw issues.

[Dragoon]

i avoid them because of price tags

[snake lab]

This is one of those threads. If price tags are your issues or genetic flaws are your issues then this industry may not be for you. My statement is not directed at anyone specific just a broad statement for those with these issues

[WingedWolfPsion]

Animals 'worse than spiders' have already been produced...and whatever makes them worse, also causes other problems for them than ataxia. They rarely eat well, and fail to thrive. Some champagne combos have turned out this way, as has the super hidden gene woma (the Pearl).

Spiders, by their behavior, don't appear to be in any distress. Distressed ball pythons tend to not eat...that seems to be the standard ball python response to 'something is wrong'. Most spiders are good feeders--the morph has a reputation for producing a good feeding response.

I realize it makes some folks think uncomfortably of horrible human diseases like Parkinson's, but it doesn't seem to do the animal any real harm, so there's no reason to fuss over it--or to be upset with folks who aren't bothered by seeing it, and like spiders and womas.

As for train wrecks? Must be a very small percentage--I've never seen one, and I breed both spiders and womas. It's even possible that it's the result of something ELSE gone wrong, such as a developmental problem, which can also cause ataxia. Train wreck spiders may be the product of an incubation issue combined with the spider gene, rather than being an extreme expression of spider ataxia.

[Genetics Breeder]

DrDooLittle, even if your bee doesn't have problems, they have the potential to, and also the potential to have offspring that do.

Eclipse Exotics, I was talking about worse problems that could potentially come up in the future. Not lethal, but worse than spider.

Snake Lab, I have only (from what I know) species without even potential problems or defects. Ball pythons, a few colubrids, leopard gecko morphs, African fat tails, crested geckos, bearded dragons, and a few species of boas.

[WingedWolfPsion]

Stinkpot turtles, green anoles, rosy boas, and many species of tortoises don't even have morphs. People still breed those.

Albino musk turtle: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4VXrkZe4Wm...usk+turtle.jpg

Blue phase (axanthic) green anole: http://i.pbase.com/g4/29/489029/2/63066576.YOGSEgI5.jpg

Albino rosy boa (there are TONS of rosy boa morphs): http://www.priceanimal.com/rosy11.jpg

Albino Hermann's Tortoise: http://albinosunlimited.com/sites/de...n/DSC_4750.JPG

Of COURSE there are morphs of these species...and if there are any tortoise species in which morphs have not yet been discovered, the moment random mutation blesses someone, it WILL be propagated. Species with no morphs still being bred? Of course...because there are no morphs. The moment one shows up, people will breed it.
Even if there are no morphs, people aren't going to leave things be...they will selectively breed for the traits they want, instead, changing the animal's appearance more slowly, over time.

As for worse problems than spiders...such as what?
Increasing the ataxia beyond what you see in spiders produces a non-viable animal that can't feed well, and doesn't thrive. So there is nothing worse...worse doesn't work.

[snake lab]

Something everyone needs to understand and consider is that in the grand scheme of things the ball python breeding industry is still in its infancy. There are going to be genetic issues with what we do. To say we shouldnt work with certain morohs because of risks is stupid. Instead of taking that stance how bout working with them to try and eliminate such issues or get a better understanding of the issues. Alot of things genetically can be washed out over time with selective breeding. This has been done in dog breeding and in other animal breeding. Genetic flaws are in all living creatures. Its not species specific to ball pythons. Look at the amount of morphs that are solid without issues. The percentages are good. And back to the price tag thing. You can be as politically correct as you want but if there was no market then there would be no industry. This industry was not built on the hobbyist. It was built on buisness. Without it there would have never been all these morphs to work with. Without a market their would never have been a nerd, ralph davis, tsk, bhb, kahl, sharp, outback, etc etc etc. It costs money to do what has been done therefore there is the market to support it. We also have to look at the evolution of these morphs we see today. If we didnt have morphs on this poll we would not have the combos we have today. If you want to work with the most complete gene in ball pythons youd be breeding normals.

[WingedWolfPsion]

By the way, I encourage people who are impassioned over this to do exactly that--breed normals selectively, to produce better color and pattern, great temperaments, and excellent, non-picky feeding.

It's a project I have planned for the future, when I have the space and money for it. It will benefit everyone in the long run, if folks begin to do this.