Black pastels and cinnamons

[TMurphy]

Here we go again......

[snakesRkewl]

I've always wanted a super black so here goes...

Black pastel "probable" het ghost X 9 egg laying female black pastel,
both outback reptiles line of black pastel...

[Brandon Osborne]

Black pastels are a stronger gene then a cinnie. The cinnies have more duckbilling then the blacks. The super black pastel is alot darker then the super cinnamon. I think the op has the 2 confused

Subjective. As I mentioned, the last two super cinnies were jet black. Neither had a hint of duckbilling. None of the cinny silver bullets or super pewters have a hint of duckbilling. Subjective.

[snake lab]

Subjective would be compairing 2 of the same exact morphs. Cinnies and blacks are 2 different morphs. Subjective would also be based on oppinion. The facts of the 2 are the black pastel is a stronger gene. Now i have seen some pretty black super cinnies for sure. And im not arguing that at all. Now if ya like super blacks over super cinnies or vice versa then that would be subjective. I wasnt arguing that just simply stating the black gene is a stronger gene to work with then the cinny. I have some cinny stuff in the collection but ive sold most of it. I will still keep the sterlings and super cinny het pieds but i replaced the other cinny stuff with black stuff and vanilla black pastel stuff really out of preference not out of any stupid fears about a little duckbilling or tail kinking.

[Kev.K]

Is this a black pastel or a cinnamon?

[h00blah]

Is this a black pastel or a cinnamon?

black pastel. <- edited answer =p

I personally think the best looking cinny is different than the best looking black pastel.. granted, they make similar looking combos, i think the good black pastels will have a darker look.. cinnys are a sweet looking BROWN.. like cinnamon lol... black pastels should be jet... hence the names.. doesn't matter if they make the same combos.. call them different LINES bred for different qualities instead of different morphs if you must.

I think cinnys have to have nice black backs, high gold/brown coloration, and nice floating alien heads.

I think black pastels should have squiggly lines within the alien head pattern. I also think the alien heads shouldn't be floating.. and it should be a much darker brown - less gold colored snake. I also like the black pastels with the gold striping on their backs that really bring out the rich blacks.

my 2 cents

[satomi325]

Is this a black pastel or a cinnamon?

I'm going to say cinny. It doesn't have the trade mark squiggles in the alien heads of the black pastels.

[TMurphy]

Subjective would be compairing 2 of the same exact morphs. Cinnies and blacks are 2 different morphs. Subjective would also be based on oppinion. The facts of the 2 are the black pastel is a stronger gene. Now i have seen some pretty black super cinnies for sure. And im not arguing that at all. Now if ya like super blacks over super cinnies or vice versa then that would be subjective. I wasnt arguing that just simply stating the black gene is a stronger gene to work with then the cinny. I have some cinny stuff in the collection but ive sold most of it. I will still keep the sterlings and super cinny het pieds but i replaced the other cinny stuff with black stuff and vanilla black pastel stuff really out of preference not out of any stupid fears about a little duckbilling or tail kinking.

Well said
And nothing against you Brandon...got no beef with you. Even though you think Cinnys and Blacks are the same .........silly boy...

Is this a black pastel or a cinnamon?

Low grade Black......

[h00blah]

I'm going to say cinny. It doesn't have the trade mark squiggles in the alien heads of the black pastels.

I would have to agree with you.

The only problem is that there's some cinnys/black pastels that are being sold as the opposite of what it best represents so it creates even more confusion.. Here's a great thread of what everyone should do LOL:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...y-black-pastel

She agrees with the majority saying it best represents a black pastel than a cinny.. so she will label it as such . Everyone should do this lolol. or whatevers =p. to each their own

[RandyRemington]

Define "stronger"? Do you mean more extreme (maybe more black) or less likely to have deformities?

I thought it was the first two black pastels (Gulf Coast?) that at the time were reported to be pretty badly deformed. But then again I know I've seen a deformed supper cinnamon. I still wonder with both this and the caramel kinking if why some breeders report it as rare and some common has more to do with accidently different environments than different collection genetics (assuming both morphs always have the tendency as part of the mutation preventing it from being bred out).