Do you feed in tank?

[luvmyballs]

when I originally posted this I had a lot of the same questions to. reading your posts makes me a little leary. everybody says there is no such thing as cage aggression but they're certainly seems to be something going on with yours. I'm not a huge breeder either I just want to make sure my kids will be safe if they get into the tanks. I will be curious to see some of the responses. I am still on the fence about this .

[Annarose15]

when I originally posted this I had a lot of the same questions to. reading your posts makes me a little leary. everybody says there is no such thing as cage aggression but they're certainly seems to be something going on with yours. I'm not a huge breeder either I just want to make sure my kids will be safe if they get into the tanks. I will be curious to see some of the responses. I am still on the fence about this .

So, because one person witnessed an improved feeding response (out of 91 posts), you're worried about aggression?

He weighs around 150g and eats 23-28g adult mice every 5 days. On the third day he ALWAYS starts prowling like he's hungry.

This just seemed strange because I've never seen him act that way in cage, almost striking at me when I've clearly just covered my hands in sanitizer and there's no mouse or rat anything except the little stain on the paper towel.

People all over this thread are talking about how there's no difference in behavior and I noticed a pretty huge one immediately after switching. It made me think...

Do the 50% of owners who feed in tank with less than 10 snakes do it merely because the breeders do? The breeders do it for convenience and because they're not really worried about shaping a nice family friendly animal, just a fat healthy one? I'm not taking stabs at anyone, but these are questions I'm asking myself after seeing this night and day change in my pet. I'd be really interested to see some input here from the owners who have more than 10 snakes and feed out of their cage and why.

I will try the hook if the behavior continues, or maybe just switch back.


EDIT: These people- Mistress, ninerballs, RobNJ

Are people calling feeding behavior in their cage 'cage aggression?' Is this just a case of mislabeling what, to me as a casual pet owner, is an undesirable behavior?

For one, I definitely agree that many people who fear "cage aggression" confuse it with a good feeding response. Personally, I'm more concerned with my animals eating properly than whether I have to tap them with a hook to get them to "snap out of it." Were your snakes striking at you two days after feeding, or just on their regular feeding day, when they could smell prey? I fed my boa for 19 years in his tank, and never had him strike when there was no food around. I feed my BPs in-tub, and have no aggression issues when I handle them on non-feeding days.

[Annarose15]

Sorry, MrLang, I should have read your post closer - it was a few days after feeding. I have a suggestion: Open the tub, reach in, and pick up your bee (honestly not being sarcastic here). When you hover around overhead, it puts them on guard, especially since that's kind of how dinner arrives, too. I only have one BP that sometimes strikes when I reach in (always has), but many of mine will use the "S" shape just to investigate the sudden light and changes in the environment, without ever striking. If your bee does strike, then you'll just learn how little it actually hurts when a snake that size tags you.

Oh, and although I do breed, I AM also concerned about producing a "family friendly animal," which is why my unfriendly rescue BP would never get adopted to a ten year-old. However, snakes are not and never will be puppies, which owners must choose to accept if they want the joy and responsibility of owning one (or many).

[MrLang]

Only my bee has acted this way. He's always been a voracious eater; I switched him from live rat crawlers to frozen mice and from feeding in tank to feeding out of tank in literally 10 seconds. (Wouldn't have switched to mice but I failed in asking what the breeder had them on.) I did just open the cage and go for him, at which time his head started shaking and he reared up to strike, so I retracted. I basically calmed him by shimmying the paper and poking his hide a few times.

I realize he's a predatory animal, but it's not really as inviting when he's curled in his hide in attack mode when I open the cage compared to before, when he'd usually slither right up to the edge of the tank calmly and hang himself out until I picked him up.

Because I'm able to separate feeding response from aggression, I think I'll try the hook technique out.

My original question still stands, though. How soon after feeding do you swap the paper towels and do you notice a reduced response after doing so? Or will he always treat his cage that way when he's hungry, regardless of smell?

[MrLang]

Sorry, couldn't edit..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGV0t7_noBg 5:00 - "If I put my hand in the cage and hadn't touched her with the snake hook, I know with 100% certainty that she would have lunged at it"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6D-t54-Q2s 3:20 "When there are rats in the room and I'm feeding one, these guys are very intelligent. As soon as I open the tub, no matter how nice they are, he will launch out of the tub at my face.

What I want to know is if that's the case with animals that don't feed in their cage... and why this isn't more of a point of discussion in this thread. When I fed out of cage and out of room they were extremely calm and didn't start to get eating response excited until I put them down in the feeding tub. After eating, they were a little grumpy to be picked up but didn't give any kind of feeding response to being picked up.

[DooLittle]

I know this is a touchy subject, and everyone has their opinions. However, I don't think that people who only have a few snakes as pets, wouldn't want to have to hook train them if it can be avoided by feeding out of tank. If they are eating fine out of tank, I wouldn't even worry about going back to that, and regaining your mellow pet. And yes people with kids and snakes realize that they aren't puppies, nor will they ever be anything like that. But I think most people would agree that if their kids wanted to be involved with the snakes
(Which is a great learning experience). The kids would have to understand all about them and have rules, they would also want to have nice friendly pets, that they they didn't have to "hook train". I can see where for breeders its easier to feed in tub, but for the pet owner with just a few, if they are eating in the tubs, go for it. They are still eating so don't worry about where they are eating. If they were stressed out, they wouldn't eat.

[WingedWolfPsion]

*shrugs*
A) A small hook doesn't cost any more than a separate tank.
B) Most ball pythons are fine unless it's near feeding day, regardless.
C) Some snakes will launch at you for food when they're hungry, no matter where you feed them.
D) A fairly large number of ball pythons either feed poorly (skipping meals), or won't feed at all, if put into a separate cage to do so.

All that in mind, my opinion is still--it's best to feed ball pythons in their own cage, where they are comfortable, as this is more important than our comfort, and doesn't pose much of an inconvenience, even if the snake does develop cage aggression. If you have a ball python, and feed it in a separate cage, and it eats every time when it's not in shed, then great...by all means, continue to do so. However, if you feed in a separate cage, and your ball python is a picky eater, it's time to think about changing things.

[MrLang]

Thanks for the input all. Not sure how I'll proceed from here but I'm glad that new owners may read and consider this part of the issue in deciding for themselves.

Like I said, I was really surprised that nobody spoke about this elsewhere in the thread. Forgive me if I missed it. As a newbie snake owner who bought them to handle and not to watch them kill things, this is a big deal to me. If others come across this and feel the same, if you can get them to eat out of their cage and it doesn't seem to freak them out too much - my advise is to do it. It's my 1 cent observation that there IS a difference in behavior when you feed in and out of the cage. I definitely wouldn't label it 'aggression,' but that doesn't mean I'm trying to go Steve Irwin on my pet just to hold it.

Oh, and I weighed my snakes after the comment about meal size. Apparently they both grew over 50 grams in the last 3 weeks, outgrowing the bag of 50 adult mice I just recently bought for them. Awesome... good thing there's another expo in a month to buy rats

[Bplove90210]

Not before a week ago but now I do and there is nothing wrong with it.


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[luvmyballs]

So, because one person witnessed an improved feeding response (out of 91 posts), you're worried about aggression?



For one, I definitely agree that many people who fear "cage aggression" confuse it with a good feeding response. Personally, I'm more concerned with my animals eating properly than whether I have to tap them with a hook to get them to "snap out of it." Were your snakes striking at you two days after feeding, or just on their regular feeding day, when they could smell prey? I fed my boa for 19 years in his tank, and never had him strike when there was no food around. I feed my BPs in-tub, and have no aggression issues when I handle them on non-feeding days.

actually I'm not really worried about anything.I merely made a cautious statement regarding children and snakes . I realize most are in favor of feeding in tank.I like to take people's opinions good or bad right or wrong and extrapolate my own opinions based on what I've heard and my personal experiences. there are some extremely knowledgeable people on this post and I value their opinions. I don't think there is a right way or a wrong way. I think it's a matter of opinion and what works best for each individual person. I have 1 snake that will only feed in tank and live. the others feed fine in tubs .