super black pastel pinstripe

[MrBig]

I'm not arguing that it hasn't been done, just that if it has why is there no concrete evidence of such, I'm aware the genetic calulator isn't the be all, end all. I challenge you too search the net and find proof of one, because I surely couldn't. As to the cinni and BP being the same, then why does a super from one of each look so differant then 2 of either? I agree that since the gene has been outcrossed and inbred, there has been a dilution of the differances between the 2 lines. However I still feel there is a significant differance, and I much prefer the BP look to the cinni. I feel there is a much bigger difference then in say lessers and Butters. But you know what they say about opinions. Great discussion guys, keep it comming.

[Brandon Osborne]

In my opinion the supers aren't that much different. Producing both morphs, you get variable degrees of darkness. My last super cinny was jet black with a white belly. I'd put it up against the darkest BP. Too much confusion. As I said, it probably all started as a pissing match. I do agree with you on one thing, it's definitely great discussion.

[TMurphy]

No arguing here....just saying that a Pastel Super Black Pastel is called a Silver Bullet. If you type Black Silver Bullet in google, you will see people who work with Black Pastels refering to the Pastel Super Black Pastel as a Silver Bullet. I "think" Greg produced a Cinny version and Ian produced a Black Pastel version the same year and somehow, both versions were coined Silver Bullet. And this is exactly why I hate so many of the names out there....way too confusing......names get screwed up. How's this one grab ya......the original Gargoyle produced by Ian was from a Black Pastel x Green Pastel...so how is it that a Cinny Het Red Ax becomes a Gargoyle and a Black Pastel Het Red Ax becomes an Onyx........ I agree that Black Pastels and Cinnys are different, that's exactly why I have only Blacks and will never have a Cinny..I think the combos are better in both pattern and color (don't show that Pewter again Brandon)........

[Brandon Osborne]

I get what you're saying and I agree 100%. As I said, I think it all boils down to a "well I made this and it's better" attitude. So many "different" combos look almost exactly the same to me....and probably are.

So how about this?.....

[Kev.K]

I personally see little to no difference. I see bigger variation in pastels than I do between cinny and bp.
All the combos are pretty much the same aswell.
I feel the same about lessers/butters.

[MrBig]

I personally love the busier pattern that BP's contribute better then the floating pattern that cinni combo's produce. I will agree with you Brandon, that the supers are close enough to give your arguement legs, but the differance in combos in high quality versions of both is far more visible. As to Pastel variation, that is simply quality differance. You will see this within every morph, some will be amazing and some not so much. I think this is very true in BP and Cinni's and it's why I'm very picky about the BP I aquire. As to those damn sandblasts Brandon, that's not far to throw a visible het pied into the mix, although I love them everytime I see them. To be honest, when I saw your sandblasts was the first time I regretted getting out of cinni's and into BPs. Not quite regretted, but definately saddened tat they didn't fit into any of my projects. Brandon, what is your company name?

[MrBig]

TMurphy, again all I found and all you point to are websites of people that work with Black Pastels and state that they make Silver Bullets. This is in no way proof to me, as in the same sentenance they call the BP versions Sterlings. I was amazed that a morph worked with for so long, could miss that simple combo. So yes I do beleive it's been done, just curious and frustrated as to why I find no concrete evidence. Most people scream from the rooftops when they make something new, don't see why this would have been any differant.

[Brandon Osborne]

Brandon, what is your company name?

I just go with my name or Osborne Reptiles on Facebook. I'm still working on a website, but I'm so picky, it may never get finished.

[alkibp]

I get what you're saying and I agree 100%. As I said, I think it all boils down to a "well I made this and it's better" attitude. So many "different" combos look almost exactly the same to me....and probably are.

So how about this?.....

Wow, that thing looks awesome! Mind listing the genetics involved in making it?

I am still learning when it comes to certain morphs.

[Brandon Osborne]

Wow, that thing looks awesome! Mind listing the genetics involved in making it?

I am still learning when it comes to certain morphs.

Thank you! Nothing "special". It's a Super Pewter (super pastel and super cinnamon)....but I have no idea where the stripe came from.