2,5 years later, finally seeing if I'm doing ok. Setup and shedding questions.

[Rmorse]

Hey guys,

I bought a baby pastel ball python in September of 2009. This little girl (named Cleo) is my first ever snake, and boy has it been a wild ride. I started her out in a 40 gallon breeder, and she is now in a custom setup. However, for the two and a half years that I've had her, I've never seen her do a "complete" shed. All of her skin comes off, but it takes her days to complete and it comes off in patches. Also, her skin is "loose" and "wrinkly" around her neck area. I never really gave it much thought, since I believed her to be in excellent health. She never refuses food, and I try and feed her every weekend. (Although I have gone as much as three weeks without feeding her. I know that's bad. )

Anyway, I'm realizing how much of an idiot I am/was to just assume that my snake and setup is as best as it can be, which is why I am now turning to the experts. I bought her as a baby, and she is about 2.5 years old, and about 38" long. Is this normal? Too small? Shedding - Is the patches normal? Do I need more moisture in the setup? How can I achieve this with my setup? Wrinkles - Is this bad? Dehydration? How can I improve this?



I'm attaching a couple pictures so you guys can get a decent idea of my snake and setup. The setup is pretty big; I always go overboard for all of my animals. (You should see the bearded dragon setup next to it! ) I read on the site today that BP's don't like a big enclosure; mine seems to immensely enjoy the space. She's constantly roaming and climbing at night time, and sleeping during the day. Any suggestions for changing around the enclosure? I need to add a hygrometer, or w/e they're called, since I have no idea the moisture level in the tank. (I know, I know...another sin, but at least I know now and I'm fixing it!) I also want to try my hand at breeding her, but I want at least a solid year of optimal conditions before I try something like that.



Enclosure and snake:

[Kinra]

I just have a few thoughts on your setup. You should replace the dial thermostat with a digital one. They are much more accurate. Ball pythons are also terrestrial and I'm surprised your girl climbs up to the top. Mine are horrible climbers and would have kept falling down. Do you know what the temps are at all of the different levels?

As for shedding, bad sheds are a sign of the humidity being too low. This may be a result of how you have your cage setup up. You can try misting her when she sheds.

[Rmorse]

I just have a few thoughts on your setup. You should replace the dial thermostat with a digital one. They are much more accurate. Will do! Ball pythons are also terrestrial and I'm surprised your girl climbs up to the top. Mine are horrible climbers and would have kept falling down. She's an awesome climber, and loves to climb! I used to have a 24" fluorescent bulb in the top left side of the enclosure, but I had to take it down because she kept climbing up to it and wedging herself inbetween the light and the top lol. I was worried she would fall, because there isn't a little ledge to catch her under the light. Do you know what the temps are at all of the different levels? No clue. Think I should pick up multiple digital thermometers and have them running out the sides, one on each level?

As for shedding, bad sheds are a sign of the humidity being too low. This may be a result of how you have your cage setup up. You can try misting her when she sheds. I was worried about that. I'll work on misting her. I also, for the longest time, didn't have a water source for her 24/7. I realized recently that this is really REALLY bad. I guess I'm just used to Bearded Dragons.

[pigfat]

Welcome to BP.net! This is a great place of information and I hope you can absorb it all lol. You may want to start by looking on the ball pythons caresheet, but here are a few of my opinions:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...thon-CARESHEET

HUMIDITY
You definitely need a water source 24/7...it will help keep humidity a little if it is a larger bowl. As for humidity, you can try misting the elcosure but thats a VERY big enclosure to try to keep humid and I don't know if the wood has been treated so it will not mold . Your humidity needs to be between 50-60%. With the heat lamp sucking your humidity out I'm going to guess you have about 10-15% humidity Your best bet would be to make humid hides, that is take some sphagnum moss, wet it, and place it in a corner of her hide, this should at least keep her humidity up enough so she will shed better. If you go to Wal-Mart you can get a thermometer/hygrometer for $8.00 so you can measure your air temps and humidity levels.

HEAT
Do you have any other source of heat besides the lamp? And what are the temps? Balls do better with belly heat, so I would advise you getting an under tank heater (uth) with a thermostat to regulate the heat. Otherwise the uth will get too hot and burn your snake. You can get a cheap thermostat from amazon http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR...8715644&sr=8-1.

But IMO...that enclosure is MUCH too large and open. I would put her in a 40 gallon long if you have to have her visible, along with a uth on a thermostat, I think she would be happier and healthier that way, and it would be a lot easier keeping the husbandry up for you!

Thats just my

[Annarose15]

I absolutely agree with all the comments so far. Here's my add-on: What is your feeding schedule and prey size? She looks small for 2.5 years old. Length doesn't matter nearly as much as weight. There is no set in stone size they should be, but my guess is that she is either a male, or underfed. Get a digital kitchen scale ($25 at Walmart) and weigh her monthly or so (keep a record). This will help you know when to worry if she goes off feed, and when she is getting up to breeding size (general rule of thumb is 1200-1500g, since she will be old enough next winter, just needs to put on weight).

[Rmorse]

Welcome to BP.net! This is a great place of information and I hope you can absorb it all lol. You may want to start by looking on the ball pythons caresheet, but here are a few of my opinions:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...thon-CARESHEET

HUMIDITY
You definitely need a water source 24/7...it will help keep humidity a little if it is a larger bowl. As for humidity, you can try misting the elcosure but thats a VERY big enclosure to try to keep humid and I don't know if the wood has been treated so it will not mold . Your humidity needs to be between 50-60%. With the heat lamp sucking your humidity out I'm going to guess you have about 10-15% humidity Your best bet would be to make humid hides, that is take some sphagnum moss, wet it, and place it in a corner of her hide, this should at least keep her humidity up enough so she will shed better. If you go to Wal-Mart you can get a thermometer/hygrometer for $8.00 so you can measure your air temps and humidity levels.

HEAT
Do you have any other source of heat besides the lamp? And what are the temps? Balls do better with belly heat, so I would advise you getting an under tank heater (uth) with a thermostat to regulate the heat. Otherwise the uth will get too hot and burn your snake. You can get a cheap thermostat from amazon http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR...8715644&sr=8-1.

But IMO...that enclosure is MUCH too large and open. I would put her in a 40 gallon long if you have to have her visible, along with a uth on a thermostat, I think she would be happier and healthier that way, and it would be a lot easier keeping the husbandry up for you!

Thats just my

I love the look of this enclosure. I think it looks amazing, and soooo much better than a 40 breeder or plastic tank. I really do not want to get rid of it, how can I make it work? I will buy one of the monster corner water dishes and keep it filled 24/7 to try and get the humidity up, as well as buying some gauges to see what the temps are at the different levels and the humidity levels. I'll let you guys know in a week or so, after I know all my levels. I do have an UTH on the middle section, under the rock cave. That is definitely her favorite spot, and where she always sleeps. I can cut out a longer shelf for the middle part, and add more cover for her.

Again, I really do not want to have to get rid of this enclosure.


THAT BEING SAID: The animal's health is what counts. I just want to be perfectly clear on this one - I care more about the animals health and wellbeing than the look of the enclosure. If I can get her healthy in this enclosure, that would be ideal. If I have to set up a new enclosure, with plastic instead of glass + wood, I will be angry at you guys and pout and piss & moan, but I will do it.

[Rmorse]

I absolutely agree with all the comments so far. Here's my add-on: What is your feeding schedule and prey size? She looks small for 2.5 years old. Length doesn't matter nearly as much as weight. There is no set in stone size they should be, but my guess is that she is either a male, or underfed. Get a digital kitchen scale ($25 at Walmart) and weigh her monthly or so (keep a record). This will help you know when to worry if she goes off feed, and when she is getting up to breeding size (general rule of thumb is 1200-1500g, since she will be old enough next winter, just needs to put on weight).

Feeding her small/medium F/T rats, try to do it every weekend. I need to get more on schedule with it.

[Slim]

I hate to tell you, but unless you rig up some kind of automatic humidifying system you'll never be able to maintain proper humidity levels in an enclosure that big. Misting is not a long term solution. Works great for Green Tree Pythons, not so much for BPs. Every BP I've ever had shed in one piece more than 90% of the time. Any thing else is unusual and a sure sign your humidity is not right.

The reason your BP was climbing up and into the light was to get warm....another problem with the type of set up you have. In an enclosure that large maintaining proper heat gradients and warm/ cool hides can be problematic. Are you using any type of heat other than over head?

Finally, BPs are not terestrial snakes. Younger ones can be quite adept at climbing, but again, it's not a long term solution. Healthy BPs become quite heavy bodied as they grow into adulthood. In my experience, 3000 gram BPs don't climb very well at all. But then again, Mom Nature didn't design them to.

[Kinra]

You might be able to get that cage to work for you, but you really will be better off putting her in the 40gal or designing a different enclosure that is only one level. I've seen some really nice custom cages that work better. Humid hides might help her shed, but you really should consider changing to a single level cage.

I hate to tell you, but unless you rig up some kind of automatic humidifying system you'll never be able to maintain proper humidity levels in an enclosure that big. Misting is not a long term solution. Works great for Green Tree Pythons, not so much for BPs. Every BP I've ever had shed in one piece more than 90% of the time. Any thing else is unusual and a sure sign your humidity is not right.

The reason your BP was climbing up and into the light was to get warm....another problem with the type of set up you have. In an enclosure that large maintaining proper heat gradients and warm/ cool hides can be problematic. Are you using any type of heat other than over head?

Finally, BPs are not terestrial snakes. Younger ones can be quite adept at climbing, but again, it's not a long term solution. Healthy BPs become quite heavy bodied as they grow into adulthood. In my experience, 3000 gram BPs don't climb very well at all. But then again, Mom Nature didn't design them to.

BPs ARE terrestrial, they are not arboreal.

[pigfat]

I love the look of this enclosure. I think it looks amazing, and soooo much better than a 40 breeder or plastic tank. I really do not want to get rid of it, how can I make it work? I will buy one of the monster corner water dishes and keep it filled 24/7 to try and get the humidity up, as well as buying some gauges to see what the temps are at the different levels and the humidity levels. I'll let you guys know in a week or so, after I know all my levels. I do have an UTH on the middle section, under the rock cave. That is definitely her favorite spot, and where she always sleeps. I can cut out a longer shelf for the middle part, and add more cover for her.

Again, I really do not want to have to get rid of this enclosure.


THAT BEING SAID: The animal's health is what counts. I just want to be perfectly clear on this one - I care more about the animals health and wellbeing than the look of the enclosure. If I can get her healthy in this enclosure, that would be ideal. If I have to set up a new enclosure, with plastic instead of glass + wood, I will be angry at you guys and pout and piss & moan, but I will do it.

I agree that this enclosure does look really nice...BUT...the real question is will you bbe able to keep the correct husbandry needs. Slim brought up a good point I forgot, that there needs to be a temperature gradient. 88-92 on the hot side and 77-85 on the cool side. If you can't do this in this enclosure then you would be better off going with a large aquarium if you want to show it off. I've seen some really great ones on youtube that look really great. Get your thermometer/hygrometer and try keeping humidity up to 50% for a week and see if you can make it work.