Question about Python Ban

[JandDReptiles]

I don't think that the ban will be in effect until the end of the year anyway, but I do think that you would get in a lot of trouble if you sold a burmese to someone across state lines. That would be interstate commerce and is subject to federal regulation.

The ban goes into full effect March 26!


Jeremy T.
J and D Reptiles
www.janddreptiles.com

[olstyn]

I am not a lawyer, but I would imagine you'd be legally covered if you required all customers to sign a statement that they understand that transporting a burmese across state lines is a federal felony under the Lacey act and that they don't intend to commit that crime with the snake they're buying from you. If, when questioned, you produce that signed statement, it should be pretty good evidence that you're not party to a crime. Kinda like how gun shops have to keep records of every firearm sale proving that they did the required background checks and followed all regulations, etc.

[The Serpent Merchant]

This is a touchy one... But even pet stores will be in this same boat if the sell Burms... If they come to you and DON'T say they are from another state, but the sale is in your state, it's technically not on you, it would be on the purchaser, IMO.... But if they tell you they are from out of state and you go through with the sale it would be on you as well as the purchaser...


Jeremy T.
J and D Reptiles
www.janddreptiles.com

But do you really think that the government is going to just let that work? only they get do do things like this. They will insist that ignorance is not a way out. For example if you are speeding and a cop pulls you over it doesn't matter if you never saw a speed limit sign or not, they won't care... you are getting the ticket.

[Kinra]

I don't think that the ban will be in effect until the end of the year anyway, but I do think that you would get in a lot of trouble if you sold a burmese to someone across state lines. That would be interstate commerce and is subject to federal regulation.

The ban goes into effect March 23rd.

[snake lab]

I can tell ya everyone is feelin it. Ive already had 3 pet stores i sell to tell me no big snakes and 1 of them doesnt want anything except corns and geckos now

[HighVoltageRoyals]

I would imagine it would be the same case as other banned animals. The stores/breeders aren't responsible for what happens to the animals after they leave their care so why would they be prosecuted at all? What if someone living in WA buys a python from you and moves into one of the "illegal" states a year or two down the line? You're going to jail? Methinks no.

I guess all those pet shops and breeders in Nevada have a lot to answer for with the booming ferret population in California.../sarcasm

[cmack91]

What if someone living in WA buys a python from you and moves into one of the "illegal" states a year or two down the line? You're going to jail? Methinks no.

i cant see that causing problems, but, if a guy came up from oregan (however you spell that), bought a burm from me, went back that day, got pulled over, i wouldnt even want the possibility of that guy giving my name as the seller. i havent read the whole act or anything, but im sure they have/ will have some kind of regulations for all sales, it is the government, and they LOVE regulating things

[WingedWolfPsion]

I can tell you, although I don't have any Burmese, I don't ask customers where they are from when they come to pick up animals locally. Why would I?

I like the signed paper idea. That way, if someone chooses to smuggle an animal across State lines, there's no question that they 'didn't know better'. That protects the seller.

I personally wouldn't sell to someone who TOLD me they were going to take an animal into an area where it's illegal, because that's just irresponsible, and what happens to the animal if it's seized? Of course, it would be killed.

I do hope that there will be a breeder or two to continue in each State, so the folks who live there will have the opportunity to acquire these animals if they want them. I also hope that rescues will coordinate to help folks who have to move find new homes for their animals, and possibly adopt new ones in their new State.

Most of all, I hope that USARK wins the lawsuit, rendering that all unnecessary.

[HighVoltageRoyals]

i cant see that causing problems, but, if a guy came up from oregan (however you spell that), bought a burm from me, went back that day, got pulled over, i wouldnt even want the possibility of that guy giving my name as the seller. i havent read the whole act or anything, but im sure they have/ will have some kind of regulations for all sales, it is the government, and they LOVE regulating things

Truueee but I've also never heard of a pet shop/breeder in Nevada selling ferrets to California citizens and getting in trouble because of it.

I guess I sort of view the repercussions of such a deal as all on the buyer because they know that what they are doing is illegal and the seller isn't responsible to learn the life story of the buyer.

It's kind of like when you walk into a tobacco shop and see all the pipes and bongs. The seller doesn't ask what they are going to be putting in the bong, they just sell them the bong. It's the responsibility of the buyer if they decide to break the law or not. I know inanimate objects are a poor comparison but I hope I illustrate my view well enough.

Now, the seller WOULD be liable if s/he shipped the animal to another state themselves, but not if someone else drove it across state lines.

[MrLang]

I am not a lawyer, but I would imagine you'd be legally covered if you required all customers to sign a statement that they understand that transporting a burmese across state lines is a federal felony under the Lacey act and that they don't intend to commit that crime with the snake they're buying from you. If, when questioned, you produce that signed statement, it should be pretty good evidence that you're not party to a crime. Kinda like how gun shops have to keep records of every firearm sale proving that they did the required background checks and followed all regulations, etc.

This. Pay 50 - 100 bucks for a 1 hour consult with a lawyer and have them help you draft this up. I'd imagine a LOT of people are going to do that, and there may even end up being some kind of 'official' form for it.

It's kind of like when you walk into a tobacco shop and see all the pipes and bongs. The seller doesn't ask what they are going to be putting in the bong, they just sell them the bong. It's the responsibility of the buyer if they decide to break the law or not. I know inanimate objects are a poor comparison but I hope I illustrate my view well enough.

This is actually a really good point. In all of the head shops I've been to, they all require you to use the word 'water pipe' instead of 'bong' and if you even say a slang word for marijuana or any similar, they kick you straight out of the store and refuse your business. So maybe breeders will have to set similar rules into effect to be legally safe. "Man, the drive back to X state is going to be long..."

"Sir, you're going to have to leave."

Maybe pet shops will start to be more like bong shops.

I support this.