Homozygous Spider Morph

[RandyRemington]

I believe HG Woma is technically an example of a homozygous lethal ball python mutation. The pearls hatch but apparently don't live to maturity.

NERD has been consistently opposed to any label with the word "lethal". I can understand because you can't get much more negative but as I've regularly pointed out "homozygous lethal" doesn't really say anything negative about heterozygous spiders and their many beautiful combos. Still people jump to incorrect conclusions when you talk about spider possibly being homozygous lethal like that spider X spider can't produce any viable offspring (3/4 of the clutch should still be good) or that you would have to see the problem homozygous spiders (they might not hatch) so maybe that's why NERD is saying spider can't be homozygous lethal.

...know what else we haven't seen homozygous of? Avalanche, Banana, Black Belly, Black Head, Black Lace, Calico, Champagne, Coral Glow, Daddy Gene, Desert, Ember, Epic, Fader, Granite, Het Highway, Spark, Josie, Marble, Napalm, Orange Glow, Philistine, Reaper, Shatter, Spector, Sugar, Whirlwind, Whitesmoke, Woma. Are they all co-dominant also since there is an absence of homozygous forms of them, or maybe it's just not proven yet.....

I've not followed all of these but I do remember RDR doing a platy X platy breeding and producing a female normal looking that should have been a super daddy gene (aka hidden). Didn't hear if it grew up ok and bred to prove its expected genetics. Should have been able to breed it to a homozygous lesser and produce 100% platy.

At this point I sort of take a negative agnostic view. I would say that any morph without a proven viable homozygous example is potentially homozygous lethal and unknown if it's dominant or co-dominant (on a like subject I would say any morph without a proven producing female is potentially female sterile). How likely it's just a case of not enough time to prove one out versus an actual homozygous lethal situation depends on how long the morph has been out and how many people are working with it. I understand the first spider was imported over 20 years ago and many many people are breeding spiders so the lack of a public proven homozygous spider is conspicuous.

I've also heard the occasional claim of a potential homozygous spider having produced a string of only spiders. Most of these are 3rd party reports but of course I'd love to hear more info on them rather than just assuming when they don't come back with updated info that the string was eventually broken.

[OhhWatALoser]

I believe HG Woma is technically an example of a homozygous lethal ball python mutation. The pearls hatch but apparently don't live to maturity.

NERD has been consistently opposed to any label with the word "lethal". I can understand because you can't get much more negative but as I've regularly pointed out "homozygous lethal" doesn't really say anything negative about heterozygous spiders and their many beautiful combos. Still people jump to incorrect conclusions when you talk about spider possibly being homozygous lethal like that spider X spider can't produce any viable offspring (3/4 of the clutch should still be good) or that you would have to see the problem homozygous spiders (they might not hatch) so maybe that's why NERD is saying spider can't be homozygous lethal.

I've not followed all of these but I do remember RDR doing a platy X platy breeding and producing a female normal looking that should have been a super daddy gene (aka hidden). Didn't hear if it grew up ok and bred to prove its expected genetics. Should have been able to breed it to a homozygous lesser and produce 100% platy.

At this point I sort of take a negative agnostic view. I would say that any morph without a proven viable homozygous example is potentially homozygous lethal and unknown if it's dominant or co-dominant (on a like subject I would say any morph without a proven producing female is potentially female sterile). How likely it's just a case of not enough time to prove one out versus an actual homozygous lethal situation depends on how long the morph has been out and how many people are working with it. I understand the first spider was imported over 20 years ago and many many people are breeding spiders so the lack of a public proven homozygous spider is conspicuous.

I've also heard the occasional claim of a potential homozygous spider having produced a string of only spiders. Most of these are 3rd party reports but of course I'd love to hear more info on them rather than just assuming when they don't come back with updated info that the string was eventually broken.

Would have to ask kevin what he means. The platty x platty rumor has been going around for a while, its not true. Ralph is attempting it this year however. I figure that gene and the yellow belly stuff could easily be proven out that way, yay for complexes. Apparently first spiders were produced in 1999 so that makes 13 years of babies, but length of time doesn't mean much since I see claims of spider x spider pairings, but never any follow ups on the clutches let alone the spider offspring after. We have the same lack of information every year.

[RandyRemington]

RDR's first platy X platy breeding was 2007 clutch 76:

http://ralphdavisreptiles.com/birthi...thons_8_07.asp

The story I heard was that the original spider was imported by CalZoo and sold by Randy Buck of Super Pets in Orange County CA to NERD in 1989 and that was the same year VPI got the clown from the same seller. I think I've read that it took a while for the clown project to get going and might be the same for the spider but at any rate it's been a while. I picked up my founder Garcia line chocolate at a pet store in 2001 and didn’t hatch my first homozygous until 2011 so I know how that goes.

TSK did some spider to spider in 2007 and 2 of the 8 eggs where small and didn't hatch. All of the spider babies where females but they hoped to breed them this last year, I just haven't checked back to ask if they went. In 2008 they did another spider X spider breeding and report 6 good eggs and 1 slug hatching 1.4 spiders so maybe that 2008 possible homozygous spider male has bred by now too.

[OhhWatALoser]

RDR's first platy X platy breeding was 2007 clutch 76:

http://ralphdavisreptiles.com/birthi...thons_8_07.asp

The story I heard was that the original spider was imported by CalZoo and sold by Randy Buck of Super Pets in Orange County CA to NERD in 1989 and that was the same year VPI got the clown from the same seller. I think I've read that it took a while for the clown project to get going and might be the same for the spider but at any rate it's been a while. I picked up my founder Garcia line chocolate at a pet store in 2001 and didn’t hatch my first homozygous until 2011 so I know how that goes.

TSK did some spider to spider in 2007 and 2 of the 8 eggs where small and didn't hatch. All of the spider babies where females but they hoped to breed them this last year, I just haven't checked back to ask if they went. In 2008 they did another spider X spider breeding and report 6 good eggs and 1 slug hatching 1.4 spiders so maybe that 2008 possible homozygous spider male has bred by now too.

never seen that link before thanks for clearing that up, interesting because i sent this to ralph

I was curious how much Christmas money I need to save up to purchase a het platty daddy male or female from you?

I also had a question about the het platty daddy, I herd you bred a platty to a platty and produced a normal looking animal (it would have to be a homozygous/super het platty daddy), can you confirm this? If not have you attempted to produced a homozygous het platty daddy?

thx and hoping to hear back form you
-matt

this is the email i got from ralph.

Hi,

I sell het platties for $1750 each.

I have not gotten that far with the platty gene. I do know that any normal offspring from a platty are “het”………the lessers are not I’m trying platty x platty this season.

Thanks,
Ralph

maybe he ment he hasn't proved out that homzoygous animal.... but sounded to me like he never made anything.

Hopefully they keep us updated.