over the counter medication?

[satomi325]

If I was to import a species that is always going to be wild caught, and is known to carry mild parasites, what medication would be an affordable way to treat this?

If I buy a fifty dollar snake, I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars making it sanitary. How much have you all paid to treat parasites through a veterinarian? I'm just getting costs figured out- it may very well turn out that I'm not willing to work with certain imported species due to the cost of dealing with a wild-caught specimen. I have never had to treat parasites, so I'm just curious. What do you suggest.

It really depends on the animal and the vet. Some vets get special prices on dewormers. For example, Revolution for mammals (flea/tick/heartworm/ear mite) is retail for $60+ for 3 vials. My vet school treats patients for $3 a vial. I would never use over the counter brand dewormer to treat for parasites. Most are not effective and/or have a higher chance of the animal getting poisoned. There's a reason why over the counter meds are way cheaper than prescribed ones from a vet. What you pay is what you get.....

"How to give my dog dewormer" does not equal "What meds can I treat imported exotic reptiles with".

A vet charges more for each shot because they are a BUSINESS. They are not in business to break even or go broke. They pay rent, insurance, ongoing education, college education, employees, employee expenses, electric, water, sewer, biohazard disposal, equipment, training for the equipment.... etc.

How exactly do you expect a vet who went to school for years to pay his bills if he charges exactly what his costs are? Of course there's a mark up. Some vets mark services/items up a lot, some not as much. That's usually regarding how much expense they have, not how "greedy" they are.

There's a lot of things I do on my own for pets. I give my own shots except for rabies(by law, it's only regarded as "given" if a vet gives it)and I treat for heartworms myself, deworm myself. But I don't consider a vet fee to be greedy just because it cost more to get shots from the vet than it cost me to go get the shots and give myself. If the dog has a reaction to the vaccine(happens fairly often, actually) then I have to run the dog to a vet and get it treated for the allergic reaction, which usually runs 4-5 times as much as the vaccine would have been(and the vet would have had to treat for a reaction since he gave the medication).

Vets are worth the cost if you don't have a lot of knowledge on what you're doing with your pets. I've worked with animals over my 40 year life, including livestock and dogs/cats. But when it comes to "Why is there a big sore on my monitor lizard" or a possible ulcer on my dog's eye... it's vet time.

And pink eye sometimes goes away on it's own, but also can end up becoming a massive ulcer, leading to losing the eye.. untreated or treated improperly. Seen it happen. A dog rubs at the eye, causing the ulcer, which makes them rub it more, causing a rupture, causing the eye to be surgically removed. And THIS is why the vet is sometimes worth the money, since if the dog had a ulcer instead of just pink eye, the easy treatment wouldn't have worked. This is the same idea for exotics, only exotics sometimes hide the illness better, have issues with regular treatment drugs or only respond to certain treatment drugs.

Of course, some vets are better than others.

X2
Well said.

its reasonable for the OP to ask if you can use benadryl for a rash his dog might have.... its not very reasonable for a person to state that they are bringing imported animals into the country, and wander if there is a cheaper way to treat them.
the reason that vets get paid what they do is simple.. they are doctors, they have earned it. saying that, there are some that i feel more comfortable with than others.
spooky

X2

i think it's a very fair question. I also think that vets are OVERpaid, and ask a LOT because most people either need it or their animals will die, if it's bad enough, or pay it because they love their animals like children. It's truly unfair.

http://www.anapsid.org/resources/rxdose.html

You can see that a lot of the dewormers are dog dewormers or cat dewormers, that they sell at petsmart.

Most of this on the list you need a perscription for...however for instance i just went to the vet to get my dog's eye looked at, and recieved a perscription for liquid neomycin, which is an over the counter anti-bacterial. Oh, don't get me wrong, it also had an eye soother in it...the same ingredient as in Visine. Treated him for a simple case of conjunctivitus...pink eye...which i read later goes away on it's on. She was saying so many things and telling me how he could have an ulcer, and/or something behind his eyelid...talked faster than a used car salesman so of course i was like "save my dog!". I did fuss about cost and ask a lot of questions, not that it did me any good, though i felt like i was prepared to go in there...she was just a much faster talker than i expected. After my fussing she came back in and took a whole GRACIOUS 12 dollars off the 138 bill, because after all, she only WHIPED OUT one eye, not both!

I also didn't trust her information on my snake that i took in. Only a 42 exam fee there. She opened my snake's mouth, and listened for a heartbeat. THAT i an exam? Seriously.

I get so pissed off most of the time, but when i finally go in there i always feel swindled. I've treated two snakes from the pound, on my own, and have felt like i've done a hellava lot more good than if i had ever even brought them near a vet. They are thriving, and no vet fees. I've only been looking up each issue as it arises and have done just fine. Granted, obviously if i feel like its' over my head i'll take an animal in, but good lord...afterwards i just feel like an idiot.

Anyway, my point is, mr.spooky, it's a reasonable question by falconpunch, and there is not the simple answer of "oh if you want a pet, you should be prepared to take it to the vet and pay out the nose for any reason!!!"
It's perfectly fine to do home treatments for a lot of things. And successful. ANd yes, CHEAPER, but hey, you have to save money when you can for stupid things the vets want to charge.

I would make a terrible vet, considering i'd be more concerned with helping the animal, and making sure it's healthy than making double profit or more.

Another example...my dog needed some shots of adequan...$38 dollars a shot. Vet raised the price to $48 dollars a shot. I was able to find it from Drs Foster and Smith online (very reputable site) for $45 dollars a BOTTLE...which was almost FIVE shots each. ridiculous. When i asked the vet if he would match prices he flipped out and said no. Apparently it costs him more to order it...I do NOT see how considering the price i was able to order it for...with FREE shipping.

Greeeeeeedy.

I'll admit that there are better qualified vets out there than others. But to say they're generally greedy is mildly offending. Many vets who have been out of school for 10, 20, 30, 40 years are still paying off their school loans. College, graduate school, and vet school are not cheap. How much do/did you pay for school? A lot right? Last year, the average tuition of a public 4 year college is $33,300 for in-state students. The average tuition of a private 4 year college is $119,400 for in-state students. Both Grad and Vet school is averaged on $40,000 for in state students and $42,000 for out of state. At the beginning of the year, the average veterinary student was graduating with around $107,000 in student loans.
Personally, for undergrad, my tuition was about $11,959/3 quarters. And my vet school tuition is $62,191.

A person who is 'greedy' and wants to make an easy buck, wouldn't go the veterinary route. It is hard work and very expensive. Veterinarians are doctors trained to aide animals. Animals can't speak like human patients do. Animals can't say what's wrong with them or how they feel so vets have to figure out a problem themselves.

Also, I've seen animals with ulcers in their eyes. It's horrible and unpleasant for the animal. A litter for 5 week old kittens contracted some when they were in foster care. It started out as nothing and developed into a huge deal where their eyes are no longer normal. Personally, I believe it was a safe move for your vet to want to treat your dog. Better safe than sorry. Safer to treat for a possible ailment then deal with it when it's coming at you in full force w/ the possibilities of other complications... That's just my opinion though....

However, I do agree that your snake exam did fall short. Is she really an exotic vet? An exotic exam should almost mirror that of a companion animal (cat/dog). Did she palpate your snake? Take measurements? Check eyes, scales, heat pits, reflex, ectoparasites, etc etc?

When I'm a vet, I don't plan on ripping people off. But like others have said, there are other fees to consider. Being in the medical field is not cheap in any shape or form.
Wolfy-hound pretty much summed it up, "A vet charges more for each shot because they are a BUSINESS. They are not in business to break even or go broke. They pay rent, insurance, ongoing education, college education, employees, employee expenses, electric, water, sewer, biohazard disposal, equipment, training for the equipment.... etc.

How exactly do you expect a vet who went to school for years to pay his bills if he charges exactly what his costs are? Of course there's a mark up. Some vets mark services/items up a lot, some not as much. That's usually regarding how much expense they have, not how "greedy" they are."

[FalconPunch]

I didn't know I'd stir up such a debate. I apologize for flaring emotions on this friendly forum, just looking to see if there was a standard "magic pill" all vets have always prescribed to your imported snakes as a precaution.

[Annarose15]

i think it's a very fair question. I also think that vets are OVERpaid, and ask a LOT because most people either need it or their animals will die, if it's bad enough, or pay it because they love their animals like children. It's truly unfair.

http://www.anapsid.org/resources/rxdose.html

You can see that a lot of the dewormers are dog dewormers or cat dewormers, that they sell at petsmart.

Most of this on the list you need a perscription for...however for instance i just went to the vet to get my dog's eye looked at, and recieved a perscription for liquid neomycin, which is an over the counter anti-bacterial. Oh, don't get me wrong, it also had an eye soother in it...the same ingredient as in Visine. Treated him for a simple case of conjunctivitus...pink eye...which i read later goes away on it's on. She was saying so many things and telling me how he could have an ulcer, and/or something behind his eyelid...talked faster than a used car salesman so of course i was like "save my dog!". I did fuss about cost and ask a lot of questions, not that it did me any good, though i felt like i was prepared to go in there...she was just a much faster talker than i expected. After my fussing she came back in and took a whole GRACIOUS 12 dollars off the 138 bill, because after all, she only WHIPED OUT one eye, not both!

I also didn't trust her information on my snake that i took in. Only a 42 exam fee there. She opened my snake's mouth, and listened for a heartbeat. THAT i an exam? Seriously.

I get so pissed off most of the time, but when i finally go in there i always feel swindled. I've treated two snakes from the pound, on my own, and have felt like i've done a hellava lot more good than if i had ever even brought them near a vet. They are thriving, and no vet fees. I've only been looking up each issue as it arises and have done just fine. Granted, obviously if i feel like its' over my head i'll take an animal in, but good lord...afterwards i just feel like an idiot.

Anyway, my point is, mr.spooky, it's a reasonable question by falconpunch, and there is not the simple answer of "oh if you want a pet, you should be prepared to take it to the vet and pay out the nose for any reason!!!"
It's perfectly fine to do home treatments for a lot of things. And successful. ANd yes, CHEAPER, but hey, you have to save money when you can for stupid things the vets want to charge.

I would make a terrible vet, considering i'd be more concerned with helping the animal, and making sure it's healthy than making double profit or more.

Another example...my dog needed some shots of adequan...$38 dollars a shot. Vet raised the price to $48 dollars a shot. I was able to find it from Drs Foster and Smith online (very reputable site) for $45 dollars a BOTTLE...which was almost FIVE shots each. ridiculous. When i asked the vet if he would match prices he flipped out and said no. Apparently it costs him more to order it...I do NOT see how considering the price i was able to order it for...with FREE shipping.

Greeeeeeedy.

Do you rant about the greed of your personal physician? I only ask because your vet likely has just as much weighing on her in school loans, and is making half as much at the end of the day.

If you distrust your vet's advice, either spend years training yourself to diagnose and treat, ask more questions until you're comfortable with the answer, or find a different vet. I recently switched herp vets because I felt I was overcharged by someone who generalized all snakes into one. My dog's vet, on the other hand, has proven time and again that they know their stuff and never nickel and dime me on unnecessary charges. It all comes down to finding the right vet for you and your animals - I drive an hour to mine because I trust them.

[sgath92]

If I was to import a species that is always going to be wild caught, and is known to carry mild parasites, what medication would be an affordable way to treat this?

If I buy a fifty dollar snake, I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars making it sanitary. How much have you all paid to treat parasites through a veterinarian? I'm just getting costs figured out- it may very well turn out that I'm not willing to work with certain imported species due to the cost of dealing with a wild-caught specimen. I have never had to treat parasites, so I'm just curious. What do you suggest.

My exotics vet charges $40-60 to have a full lab work done on stool samples [which is primarily what they use to look for parasites]. I don't know what the actual treatments go for, as I haven't needed them.

I suspect if you could find a lab that will do the testing yourself, and cut out the middleman [in this case the vet] you could save some of the lab costs and then you'd only need to see a vet for the treatments when you get a diagnosis. If you have 6 snakes imported and only 2 have their lab work show they have parasites now you're talking two vet visits for parasite treatments versus 6 visits to have the whole group examed first followed by 2 follow ups.

[Skiploder]

i think it's a very fair question. I also think that vets are OVERpaid, and ask a LOT because most people either need it or their animals will die, if it's bad enough, or pay it because they love their animals like children. It's truly unfair.

http://www.anapsid.org/resources/rxdose.html

You can see that a lot of the dewormers are dog dewormers or cat dewormers, that they sell at petsmart.

Most of this on the list you need a perscription for...however for instance i just went to the vet to get my dog's eye looked at, and recieved a perscription for liquid neomycin, which is an over the counter anti-bacterial. Oh, don't get me wrong, it also had an eye soother in it...the same ingredient as in Visine. Treated him for a simple case of conjunctivitus...pink eye...which i read later goes away on it's on. She was saying so many things and telling me how he could have an ulcer, and/or something behind his eyelid...talked faster than a used car salesman so of course i was like "save my dog!". I did fuss about cost and ask a lot of questions, not that it did me any good, though i felt like i was prepared to go in there...she was just a much faster talker than i expected. After my fussing she came back in and took a whole GRACIOUS 12 dollars off the 138 bill, because after all, she only WHIPED OUT one eye, not both!

I also didn't trust her information on my snake that i took in. Only a 42 exam fee there. She opened my snake's mouth, and listened for a heartbeat. THAT i an exam? Seriously.

I get so pissed off most of the time, but when i finally go in there i always feel swindled. I've treated two snakes from the pound, on my own, and have felt like i've done a hellava lot more good than if i had ever even brought them near a vet. They are thriving, and no vet fees. I've only been looking up each issue as it arises and have done just fine. Granted, obviously if i feel like its' over my head i'll take an animal in, but good lord...afterwards i just feel like an idiot.

Anyway, my point is, mr.spooky, it's a reasonable question by falconpunch, and there is not the simple answer of "oh if you want a pet, you should be prepared to take it to the vet and pay out the nose for any reason!!!"
It's perfectly fine to do home treatments for a lot of things. And successful. ANd yes, CHEAPER, but hey, you have to save money when you can for stupid things the vets want to charge.

I would make a terrible vet, considering i'd be more concerned with helping the animal, and making sure it's healthy than making double profit or more.

Another example...my dog needed some shots of adequan...$38 dollars a shot. Vet raised the price to $48 dollars a shot. I was able to find it from Drs Foster and Smith online (very reputable site) for $45 dollars a BOTTLE...which was almost FIVE shots each. ridiculous. When i asked the vet if he would match prices he flipped out and said no. Apparently it costs him more to order it...I do NOT see how considering the price i was able to order it for...with FREE shipping.

Greeeeeeedy.

Dog dewormers - oranges.

Dealing with parasite loads on imported reptiles - apples.

Quoting Anapsid for anything - worthless.

The lesson - do not compare apples and oranges and Anapsid (Melissa Kaplan) is far better known for spreading disinformation than actual useable facts.

Bottom line: the price of the snake should not dictate the level of veterinary care that the OP should invest in it.

There are no magic pills for dealing with internal and external parasites in reptiles. The parasites differ by both geographic area, other species in the area and target prey. They need to be proper identified and treated by a qualified reptile vet.

[rabernet]

Quoting Anapsid for anything - worthless.

The lesson - do not compare apples and oranges and Anapsid (Melissa Kaplan) is far better known for spreading disinformation than actual useable facts.

Beat me to it. I saw Anapsid as the quoted link and did a heavy sigh....

Just because it's on the internet doesn't make it factual. Especially when it comes from Melissa Kaplan.

[Kittycatpenut]

Did I miss something about Melissa?

[Skiploder]

Did I miss something about Melissa?

Anapsid and the quality of the information posted therein has been discussed to death on many forums. The accuracy of the information has been picked apart.

Same with Kaplan. Instead of hashing it out here, I would recommend that you read the introduction to Kaplan 101:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ad.php?t=23063

Or you can just go to Anapsid and pick a random page and fact check it:

http://www.anapsid.org/savannah.html

Some nuggets from the savannah monitor page:

"Substrate
Brown butcher paper is the easiest and least expensive but rather uninteresting. Astroturf or indoor/outdoor carpeting is another possibility."

Really?

Juvenile/Subadults (up to three feet in length) should be fed one to four mice twice a week

Uh huh.......

"Hot rocks may be used only for smaller monitors, and only when guarded against getting too hot (see the article on hot rocks for well-known problems associated with them). If using a hot rock, it should be connected to a thermostat to keep the surface temperature down to 85-95 F (29-32 C), not the 105 F (40 C) that the hot rocks typically reach."

Yep. A whole page of about the worst information you could give on savannah monitors.

[Kittycatpenut]

Oh. I missed a lot.

[Missy King]

so wait, you guys are mad at this melissa person because she doesn't think that everyone should be able to keep exotic pets? not everyone should have kids either.

and i have had too many experience with greedy vets. Complain all you want about school bills, anyone who's gone to college has them...and everyone works to pay them off. It's not like vets don't make money. please. you also can't tell me that vets in one area, say...in L.A. Southern California, don't charge more than say, Eastern Oregon.

In my exact experience, this is true.

You guys are being pretty defensive of my opinion of vets and their charges. i really doubt any of you have seen the prices down here in southern cali.

Also, why on earth would it be okay to give your own shots to your dog, and treat most worms or parasites, but then you frown on someone who says you don't need to go to a vet for that? Contradiction.

Agreed, as someone bleated, there are no magic pills to cure all parasites...but there ARE pills that are sold over the counter, and they ARE the same ingredients as the vet sells you. If you are knowledgeable about giving them to your animals, as someone else suggested you should be to do it....then there is not a problem, and you do not need a $58 dollar vet fee to figure that out.

As for someone else saying "spend years learning about it yourself, or get another vet" yeah, buddy, that's my point. I do read about it, and i do what i can myself, and i have not had the same vet twice (except when i lived in eastern Oregon, actually).

So I will admit my post had a frustrated tone. yeah, i'm frustrated.

If you say the vet's office is a business...and they want my money for medcine, and they want to pay off their expensive and amazing educations, then why wouldn't they match prices for the internet, or at least offer a more realistic cost to someone who points out their price is high? It's just easier to not sell it at all? That's really stupid business. I mean, after all, some money is some money, and better than none...especially when their school is SO expensive and just regular work cannot cut it to cover bills!

I'm sorry...actually no, i'm not. Probably 90% of you are responding as a knee-jerk reaction. I don't think the vet treating about 1,000 chihuahuas and driving corvet needs my money. That is actually how it is in my area.
I chose the wrong vet when she said she treated reptiles *shrug* that was my point. You guys can get as snarky as you want, but you're just being annoying.

I mean, where do you guys have the gall to, on one hand, fuss at me for trying to do what I can for my pets and rescues at a reasonable price, and doing and learning on my own to treat them when i can...and then on the other hand get high and mighty and make fun of internet posts by someone who has gone to way more "expensive" schooling than you and say it's all wrong? Have YOU Studied as much as this melissa person or are you just mad that she doesn't think everyone should own exotics? lol

Jeez. The first link you put up is just another forum complaining about that chick. I don't know anything about monitors so i have no idea if the second one is right or wrong...but neither do you...do you? I mean you just automatically bring your pets straight to the vet, so why would you even pay attention to anything on the internet??