Do you avoid morphs with known genetic flaws?

[OhhWatALoser]

I most likely will not work with caramels because we have ultramels. If we did not have ultramels, I might work with caramels. Something that looks just as cool, but no issues.... it's hard to say no, it's just from a pure breeding perspective and the direction I personally see the market going. I believe the trend I see is because of the kinking issue.

I have no issues with spiders at all, I already work with them. I'm shooting for lesser x lesser BEL this year again (missed last year). The duck billing has no effects on why I'm not working with cinnies. I would also gladly work with the desert project.

Every morph is a defect and every morph can have underlying issues we can't identify right away. I have no doubts we can successfully give a great quality of life to any of the morphs we have in captivity.

[ball python 22]

Does anybody have pics of the pearl and what kind of defect do they have

[snakesRkewl]

We produced 3 perfect lesser/butter BEL's this past season, we are shooting for super black pastels this season, have made numerous spider combos.
We are not working with any caramels since we already have albino and clown and hypo recessive traits going on

[Serpent_Nirvana]

Thanks to everyone that replied and voted! I'm really curious to see how this poll winds up, but I can definitely already see where it's heading.

I find it really fascinating that significantly more people are turned off by the potential for kinking in caramels than the (almost inevitable) neuro issues in spiders. I do have one male caramel and although caramel projects aren't a huge part of my collection by any means, I probably will keep forging ahead with them (mainly the caramel mojave stuff).

I guess maybe I'm still hopeful that selective breeding may eliminate or decrease the incidence of kinking -- unlike the spider neuro issues, it isn't a guarantee out of a caramel breeding, though obviously it is a risk. I don't know what percentage of caramels actually come out kinked; I would be curious to hear that statistic.

I started the poll because I'm seriously wrestling with whether to nix my spider projects. My female spider started out as a perfect baby, but as she's aged she's become more and more neurologic. She still eats like a champ and oddly, stops spinning or spazzing if I pick her up. She also has a perfect righting reflex. It's a very weird defect, but it just kind of bothers me to watch her ... And I feel as though if it bothers me that much, I shouldn't breed her (or my two spider combo males).

Then again, when I pick any of them up to interact with, they look and act like totally normal, healthy snakes. It's just that sometimes ... They spin.

I forgot to mention the pearl and regular woma wobble. (For those that don't know, the homozygous hidden gene woma, AKA pearl, is a pale ball python that apparently becomes severely neurologic shortly after hatching, fails to eat, and almost invariably dies.) I also forgot to add the sable; I'll see if I can put that in. To my knowledge, some sable combos also have issues (sable x spider is said to be lethal -- they are born, then fail and die -- and I think sable x champagne is also neurologic).

[Serpent_Nirvana]

Nevermind -- I can't edit the poll. Apologies to those who abstain from sables, womas, deserts and anything else I forgot.

[jason_ladouceur]

Yes, I have no interest in working with spiders or caramels because of wobbling and kinking. As of right now those are the only morphs I don't want in my collection because of known issues.

x2
i also included super cinny but am less worried about them as this seems to be fairly rare. but when there is black pastel to use why take the chance.

[jason_ladouceur]

Does anybody have pics of the pearl and what kind of defect do they have

all the pearls (super hg woma) that i am aware of that have been produced have the spider wobble x10. they just flip and spin. i don't believe Kevin has been able to even keep any alive but i could be wrong on that one.

[purplemuffin]

I think the reason people have no fear of working with spiders is they are one of the most common morphs out there, yet you never really hear of a spider struggling to eat or breed. They even tend to be people's strongest thriving snakes despite the wobble 'problem'

Now, I haven't seen a wobble that actually affected the spider to the point where it had trouble living(except in a case where the snake already had other disabilities like severe kinking or even bad care causing more neurological issues), but then with caramels we here all too often about babies who are so severely kinked they can't eat or..well, live. So that scares people.

There are a lot of lethal combos out there, so we do have to watch out for that. Whatever your choices, whether you work with these animals or not--make sure you are informed. If your plan were to revolve around the pearl and you spent all your time and money preparing for that..well, woops. Sorry, that sucks.

Now, sable/spider is fatal. That doesn't make me scared of spiders or sables. Of course I would never breed them! Fatal combos are different to me than genes that cause health problems just from the get go. And kinks scare me.

If in the future people produce a kink free line of caramel(which I honestly consider the ultramel to be, despite it looking a little different) then that's awesome. I personally am not brave enough to go in and work with these genes when there are other options available. For those that are willing to deal with the risk of having to cull sick babies, deal with infertile clutches and risks to their females, and are knowledgable to do this for the betterment of that morph--more power to them.

[heathers*bps]

I am not opposed to working with any of these genes.

[loonunit]

Lessers have bug-eyes? I thought that was also super cinnies/super black pastels?

I have been avoiding caramels and spiders, though I'd LOVE to work with caramels. But I'm currently up to my neck in black pastels.