What would you get if you had 10,to 12k to spend

[Luke Martin]

Are there even ANY millionaires from breeding?

You'd be surprised......

[CapeFearConstrictors]

I see what you are saying but I also see holes in logic.

The biggest is one 5000$ snake does not breed alone. You need a female or male. Your figuring is off a single animal. The second flaw is labour investment return should not calculate labour as return but deductions. So lets start with 5200$ and you make 50000 in two years so that leaves 44800 then subtract labour say 50$ an hour @156 hours (7800) leaves 37000. Then subtract power, feed, substrate, cleaning and sundries say 225 per month (I think this is very low) then 5400 more gone leaves 31600. rent... the next big expense, say what in my area a 10x35 space with water hook up and bathroom is about 1200 a month, but lets say you find a basement somewhere or in a home, so 600 a month for that... so 14400 leaves 17200 profit in two years.

5200 in gold two years ago is 15112 today subtract the 100$ in labour and you have 15000 today. less the initial 5200 leaves you 9800$ with low risk and no effort. The difference is only 7400 give or take. If we figure only two years and add things like T-stats rack and tubs flex watt insurance ect. You can carve off a extra 2000-4000 quite fast.


If you are simply trying to make a buck there are easier ways to do so. But who breeds snakes just for money? Most have other reasons for doing so simple business math cannot account for. Yes there is more money in the long term but how many start with a modest investment and are millionaires in ten years of breeding?

As mentioned, your numbers are way off. My numbers were based off the morph to normals (at less than $100 each, it's not much of a factor). I have nearly 60 snakes in my collection and raise my own rats (about 500 at any given time). I spend about $120-150/month on rodent bedding and food and cleaning supplies for the snakes. Any increase in my electric bill has not been noticeable and I do not need to pay rent to keep them. It takes me a total of about 5-7 hours a week to maintain this collection. If I value that time at $30/hr, then my total financial investment is about $1,000/month, or $12,000/year. That comes out to about $200 per year per snake. With your numbers, you end up paying well over $1,500 per year per snake... which, I'm sorry, but that's completely absurd. 10 snakes can be kept in a bedroom with very minimal expense and upkeep.

Of course, this isn't factoring in other elements such as racks, thermostats and other one-off expenses. With 10 snakes, you're looking at less than $2,000 for all that, which isn't a whole lot off that nice big bottom line.

Investing in gold is hardly risk free. Gold prices rise and fall like everything else in the economy. You might win big, or you might lose. Regardless, your decisions and know-how really have little to do with that. With ball pythons, you decide which mutations to buy, which to breed together, and how to keep and maintain them. A lot of the end result is in your control.

I do have to agree with you though, that making money should not be the sole reason for breeding ball pythons. There is great potential for making money there, but if you don't love the animals, your husbandry will suffer and in turn, your animals will suffer. Cleaning snake poop week in and week out isn't glamorous or fun. Gotta love the animals first and foremost.

[kitedemon]

My point is it is a business and as a business if you can't pay for the space you are using it isn't realistic. If it is in your house the % of floor space against the mortgage should be factored in. As with all expenses and wages even if it is yours. The business has a business account and you have yours separate and untangled. The two should not be mixed up. I have owned a business for quite some time I pay myself a wage (yes 100 an hour) and my business used to pay rent to myself when I had a home office. If a business cannot pay its employees a wage and expenses with cash in the bank it is not viable.

I can't see running a professional business from a bedroom. It really requires a proper location. Perhaps my failing in understanding is that I have run a professional business for 20 + years and just can't get my head around is that you value your real estate at 0 (property taxes? mortgage? insurance? all cost nothing?), and not paying a decent wage to the owner/operator.

I can't say what breeding expenses are like I can only judge against my collection. I based it on my personal expenses. Personally I can't see 2 snakes turing that kind of profit. Does that mean that you make 900000 on 30 pairs a year? I believe the skill you possess is worth more than 30/hr.

If you are right you are encouraging a lot more competition.

Sorry for the debate Op. My advise is buy what you like.

[EverEvolvingExotics]

SWR, one of the biggest reptile breeders in southern Wisconsin breeds all of his snakes in his basement. I find him to be incredibly professional, I have bought multiple snakes from Jim. In a business sense I don't see why you would allow yourself to purchase a separate building if you have the space at home. Look at all the extra and unnecessary costs that would be spent, gas, rent, more electricity, insurance, and taxes, not to mention all the time you would spend time driving back and forth.

I don't think many people are able to make a substantial profit off breeding, but there are those that do, and do it very well.

[Wh00h0069]

$50/hr? I don't make that at my job. Plus I enjoy them, it's not a job.
$250/month for maintenance? I have almost 30 snakes and spend about $80/month on food and bedding.
I keep them in my kids room $0 rent.
I built my racks and incubator for about $300.

What about electric? I spend at least $100 each month on electric. Larger breeders would spend considerably more, and some even have to purchase warehouses.

Also, what if the animals die, or decide to never breed. With gold, that isn't possible.

[billye1982]

It depends a lot on what you already have. If you are starting from scratch, but already have food supply, caging, heat, incubators... everything except the snakes you really have many options. Double supers, double recessive, lots of single gene females and a few 3-4 gene males.

One option, a double super male. Super pastel ivory or super pewter. 3-5K, and several pastel yellowbelly or pewter females and several normal proven females at $100 each. Not much variety here, but you would never produce normals and could actually get into a 3 gene super pretty easy.

Next option, double recesive. Albino het pied male 3K. Several double het albino/pied females at 1K each and a handful of albino females to make albino pos het pieds. Again, not much different variety, but gets you into some of the coolests combos out, albino/pied, albino/clown, clown/pied whatever tickles your fancy.

Another route is several pastel, lesser, mojave, pinstripe, spider females and a killer queen bee male and/or a killer blast (or whatever 4 gene male suits your taste) This will give you tons of different offspring that you could hold back a few females and replace the sinlge gene girls with multiple gene females in three years.

And again, it all boils down to what do you want to work with, who is your target customer and how many snakes do you want to be working with. Good luck either way

[nickyp0]

i am sorry if i had 10k or 12k i would put that on a down payment for a house instead of just one snake. i would rather work my way up with low grade morphs to mid-grade morphs. the high end stuff today will be the mid-grade tomarrow ( not really but you get my point).

[LotsaBalls]

What about electric? I spend at least $100 each month on electric. Larger breeders would spend considerably more, and some even have to purchase warehouses.

Also, what if the animals die, or decide to never breed. With gold, that isn't possible.

$100 month?? What are you heating with?? Gold?!?

[Wh00h0069]

$100 month?? What are you heating with?? Gold?!?

RHP's and Flexwatt. It was a ton worse in the winter at my old house when I used to use space heaters in the snake room and and the garage for rats.

[majorleaguereptiles]

Did this thread really turn into buying gold as an investment over ball pythons?

For those who want to buy and sell gold for a living, power to you! This is a ball-python forum and the OP asked what they would do if they had money to spend on BPs.

If you think you can't make better money buying gold than breeding ball pythons, awesome... start a new thread about your experience, I'd like to hear.