Nearing the end of guaranteed genetics. What will it mean to you?

[Serpent_Nirvana]

It's pretty much already been said, but maybe not quite in this way, so I'll say it again anyway

I think that the increasing ambiguity of genetics in a given animal, coupled with an increasing appreciation for "good quality" specimens of any given morph, will push towards a trend of animals being priced based more on appearance and bloodline and less on the morph(s) it carries.

I don't think we're at all far from the day when an exceptional looking bumblebee from top bloodlines commands a reliably higher price than a muddy brown super spinner blast.

So to address the OP's question -- I think that a brown, spotted, kinda poopy-looking snake that definitely carries ABC genes and "might" carry XYZ genes might be hard to sell in the distant future. However, a glowing, stellar, knock-your-socks off thing that probably contains this and definitely contains that will likely continue to be worth the asking price.

And yeah I agree -- it seems like a lot of these 5-6er combos all end up looking like either a faded silver snake or some sort of pastel lesser spider thing.

[CapeFearConstrictors]

Banannas are hurting because of their reproduction issues. Just like female deserts are worthless cause they throw sluggs 95% of the time. This happened with caramels because of the kinking.

Bananas hurting? Are you referring to the kind you eat, because certainly you don't mean the ball python mutation.

I'm not sure if you are aware, but a male banana recently sold for $67,000 in cash and trade, and that's only weeks after it was hatched! Oh yeah, hate to be in that project...

Regarding female deserts, yes, I think it's safe to say there are issues. But I also think there might be more to it than we know. On another forum there was a big thread about it and the idea of lowering temperatures came up and it seems to make sense. Unfortunately, with the tragedy that struck Pro Exotics, I think any progress on that got pushed way back.

Caramels do have kinking issues, but the mutation is still selling and they look amazing. Have you seen the caramel pied? Smoking hot.

[Chris633]

I agree with Serpent Nirvana. I think we will eventually hit a point where the look/bloodline of the animal will be most important as far as pricing goes. I know that as I build my collection of breeders I am trying to go with quality. I'll pay the extra for the better genetics and look the snake has.

[JLC]

I guess it's inevitable that a thread about bp morphs will turn at some point to the debate about deserts, bananas and caramels....even though those three have entirely different "issues"...different resolutions (or lack of resolutions) and have absolutely no relevance to the original topic of the thread in the first place.

Personally, I thought the original topic of the thread was VERY interesting. And I agree with Robin that it's far too early to speculate with any degree of certainty what the future will look like. But it's still fun to speculate, even so.

For those with unhappy speculations...it's no fun for you. Sorry!

Seriously...the market WILL change. It's been changing since the day ball pythons were first sold as pets in the US. The day the market stops changing will be the day it's dead. Change for the better? Change for the worse? I think that's all a matter of perspective.

Lower overall prices mean more people get to enjoy more facets of this fascinating hobby.

Higher overall prices mean a few people build some wealth faster with less effort expended.

Which is better? Guess it depends on which party you want to be in.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

Bananas deserts and caramels? Focus people focus....

Back to the subject.

This is going to be a long thread so bare with me... this is such a complicated subject that we need to organize it some before we can really discuss it in detail.

For starters lets see if we can for the most part agree on this.... now obviously this will vary Depending on the morphs involved.... ON AVERAGE at what point does the water definately get cloudy? Is it a 4 morph combo? At what point is the breeder likely guessing on what morphs are displayed?

[snake lab]

Sorry mike my reptile a.d.d kicked in again. Ok focusing now. Yes i think at 4 genes the water is clouding.

[rabernet]

I guess I'm missing what's complicated about the subject? The question was are we nearing the end of guaranteed genetics.

And no - I don't think so. Double and triple combos are going to be going strong for a LONG time now. Those who will be dealing with the larger number combos are at this time, an elite number of folks.

Though - if you think about it - all these base mutations that we have to play with are a little like leggo's. Every person can make something completely different with the same "starter set". The limit is up to that person's imagination.

[CoolioTiffany]

I'm sure there are still many genetic Balls out there in Africa that are yet to be brought into the U.S.

That being said, that brings up many more possibilities and more combos to try. Hell I even think that many people who own "normals" have something fishy in the genes of that animal, even if it looks "normal". Like for example, certain Lessers producing Pladdy Daddy's without knowing the snake has that hidden gene in it. I even produced a normal that seems like he really took after his dinker dad's genes.

I believe there will be many more possibilities of new morphs coming into the market that await to be bred to other established morphs.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

I guess I'm missing what's complicated about the subject? The question was are we nearing the end of guaranteed genetics.

And no - I don't think so. Double and triple combos are going to be going strong for a LONG time now. Those who will be dealing with the larger number combos are at this time, an elite number of folks.

Sorry I think it is a complicated subject.

I agree, Double and triple combos are going to be going strong for a long time. However that has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

I disagree with your suggestion that the larger number of combos are only being worked by an elite number of folks. ANYBODY can buy a male right now with 4 morphs for about $2,000. That same person can buy a female with 2 morphs for about $400.

Not very elite.

[snake lab]

I'm sure there are still many genetic Balls out there in Africa that are yet to be brought into the U.S.

That being said, that brings up many more possibilities and more combos to try. Hell I even think that many people who own "normals" have something fishy in the genes of that animal, even if it looks "normal". Like for example, certain Lessers producing Pladdy Daddy's without knowing the snake has that hidden gene in it. I even produced a normal that seems like he really took after his dinker dad's genes.

I believe there will be many more possibilities of new morphs coming into the market that await to be bred to other established morphs.

They are breeding a ton of dinker stuff in africa before it even sets foot in the country. They arent letting the stuff in like they used to now that they see the market here in the states.