Bee or Cinny... that is the question!

[Crawly's Mom]

So I have been in contact with the breeder who sold me my spider since I brought her home. He's been very nice, let me see his clutch of eggs that was about to hatch, taught me to pop... we've even been talking about breeding projects. He had a 2 year old cinnamon male I was thinking of buying. He said he'd go down to 125. He's possible het for pied, which I thought could be a fun experiment to see if I could maybe prove him for pieds, maybe even possibly shoot for some super cinnys or a panda pied, even future plans for my spider and maybe some cinnabees. Then he said that he could offer me a bee male for 350 instead of the 450 he was originally asking, if I were interested. He even said he'd be willing to do a payment plan. So my question is... what would you guys do? This would probably be my first ''breeder'' male. As far as the possibilities go I don't know if I like any of the combos with my spider/bee possible combo, I mean aside from the spider and bee I would already have. Anyone have any tips? Here's some pics of both the cinny and the bee male.

[RyanT]

Well, obviously the Bee has more genetic potential with carrying 2 traits instead of just 1. But you already have Spider in your female, so no need to double-up on that. Are you planning to get more females? If so, I'd definitely go with the Bee, you can make some great things with them. But if you're just using your female Spider, then I'd go with the Cinny to shoot for Cinnabees and save a couple hundred bucks.

[RyanT]

And as far as looks go, the Cinny is a nicer example of a Cinny than that Bee is of a Bee. In my opinion.

[snake lab]

Thats too much for a bee male. But the bee would be a better choice i think. Also you cant do panda pieds with a cinny. It has to be a black pastel. Also cinnies tend to throw duck bills and tail kinking. The bee is a 2 gene animal so you have more to work with. Now if you do the cinny and breed him to a het pied girl and prove out then obviouslly thats a money maler but its a big gamble with poss hets.

[cmack91]

Cinny

[Crawly's Mom]

I am not sure yet what other females I would like to shoot for. I might invest in a pewter or pastel maybe. Maybe something that is het for pied so I could possibly prove the male as het for pied. It would be awesome is he was het, would mean more for breeding potential. I like the cinnys, honestly. I like the babies they can throw. Since I had a spider female already I wasn't sure I'd want to really double up right away and get a bee in addition to the little spider I have. Is 125 a good deal for a proven breeder male cinny thats possible het for pied? I know y'all said 350 is still too much for the bee. Is it a decent deal on the cinny? I think I am leaning more that way, just for the chance at some cinnabees and down the road maybe super cinny bees (not that anyone has had them! lol). I thought that super cinnamon pieds were panda pieds... no? Maybe I am off on that then lol.

[Jessica Loesch]

super cinnamon pieds are not panda pieds,as there is only one known version and it was a super black pastel pied ... therefore the assumption they are the same is a little off. No one knows.
However as I have said before in other threads, cinny pieds only have head pattern and black pastel pieds have body pattern, so it is a good assumption that a super cinny pied would be a white snake with a black head. Not really a panda pied.

Plus it would take you a long time to make pandas even if you were starting out with a black pastel.

I would still go cinny unless you want more females as others said.

[Kinra]

As it has been stated that bee has more potential as a breeder given that it is a two gene animal, but if the cinny proves to be het pied then that's a steal.

The cinny looks like a nice example of a cinny. The bee looks pretty good too, but he's going to either brown out or get a very speckled, I'm leaning more towards speckled/pixelated. It sounds like you have a good idea of what you want to do though, so I think you should go with the cinny. If you want to prove him het pied you should get a female pied. You have a better chance of proving him one way or the other and all the babies will be 100% hets.

Panda pieds are made with black pastels, which though they look similar to cinnies are a little different. There are some differences that can be hard to spot if you don't know what to look for.

Snake lab, I don't know how much you sell you male bees for, but $350 is a decent price from what I have seen. $400-$500 is what I usually see them selling for.

[snake lab]

I sell my bee males for 250 to 300 and females for 400 to 500. If you go on kingsnake you will see about the same prices. Those people selling them for alot more are not selling them. Now keep in mind im talking babies

[Kinra]

I sell my bee males for 250 to 300 and females for 400 to 500. If you go on kingsnake you will see about the same prices. Those people selling them for alot more are not selling them. Now keep in mind im talking babies

I've been buying from the wrong people then. >__< I have two female bees and I paid $500 for both and it's easy to see a huge quality difference between the two. One is going to be very brown or hopefully pixelated and the other is a very nice bee, very high quality (even at $500 I still think I got a great deal on her )

Sorry to highjack the thread.