Adopted extremely troubled ball python...

[Fataltix]

Hey guys, about two months ago I adopted an extremely troublesome ball python from a buddy who was really struggling to take care of him in his situation (money...). Before I get to his problems and ask my own questions I want it clear from the start that husbandry has been spot on from the beginning with this little BP, and that there was no cruelty or any form of harmful actions towards him.

His name is Syntax, he is an 11 month old pastel ball python, and he has probably the most severe head wobble I've ever seen or heard of. While I originally thought wobble only came from the spider gene, it appears it can emerge in other morphs, but it is extremely rare. His wobble is SO severe that he cannot determine direction in any way. He continually flips himself upside down, crosses his eyes, and literally spins in circles like a fish with whirling disease. When he strikes at food, it takes many attempts and he appears only capable of striking vertically (directly up into the air off the ground). It is extremely sad to watch, and seems to create a lot of stress for the snake.

Either as a result of his wobble or perhaps some underlieing neuroligical disorder, Syntax has always had problems eating. He refuses to take f/t, and even frequently refuses live. As such he has seen numerous feeding strikes, and is very underweight for his age, right around 200 grams. However, he doesn't appear skinny, just stunted. He looks as if he were maybe 3-5 months old in length and girth.

He has also had numerous problems with shedding, holding on to shed skin for days and even weeks at a time when it is literally sluffing off of him from touch. Humidity was monitored well with the previous care taker as well as I (50% MINIMUM) and yet he still has problems shedding. Sometimes refusing to shed without assistance (bath/towel combo) when my other BP at with identical husbandry has zero issues.

He also seems to have severe issues adjusting to an environment, regardless of the tub setup, he constantly tries to escape, and rarely hides in his TWO provided hides. He is always moving and burning energy, and severely stressed out.

It is extremely sad to watch, and apart from all these problems the little guy is extremely cute and a joy to handle. I'm dieing to help him live a better stress free life, but I'm at ends as to how I should accomplish it. Just to clarify, his temps/humidity are near perfect. A cold side of 80*, a warm side of 90-94, and humidity never below 50%. He always has fresh water, and is in a secluded tub with minimal exposure to movement and outside activity. Even as I check on him now I see that he is moving around his enclosure, desperate to escape.

What can I do to help this BP? I got him to eat a few small live mice with me, but zero f/t (same result as previous owner) and have tried EVERY f/t trick on the planet... Does anyone have any advice or have heard of this before? Is it possible he has something very wrong with him genetically?

Any advice is appreciated, I just want to make this poor little guy happy.

Thanks,
Fatal

[purplemuffin]

I think wobbling appearing in other morphs has more to do with some kind of neurological problem with the snake itself rather than the morph. That sounds like terribly violent thrashing, could you get a video? Some illnesses can show themselves through those sort of spinning wobbles, though he could have been born with it(maybe got a little too hot in the incubator or something!)

Poor baby. I really think he has something genetically wrong with him.

Does the wobble seem worse when he is stressed, or is it random/always there?

[Fataltix]

I think wobbling appearing in other morphs has more to do with some kind of neurological problem with the snake itself rather than the morph. That sounds like terribly violent thrashing, could you get a video? Some illnesses can show themselves through those sort of spinning wobbles, though he could have been born with it(maybe got a little too hot in the incubator or something!)

Poor baby. I really think he has something genetically wrong with him.

Does the wobble seem worse when he is stressed, or is it random/always there?

Unfortunately I have no way of taking video at the moment... But I can tell you that it seems completely random, and I wouldn't quite describe it as thrashing. He moves at a similar pace to a regular BP, but with zero direction or control. Often spinning upside down like a rollar coaster, or simply slowly doing a barrel roll and ending up on his back and seeming very confused. Sometimes he just slowly goes in a circle, like he's chasing his tail... It's quite adorably sad .

It is so strange though, sometime I'll see him moving around his cage like a normal BP for 10 minutes, only to randomly flip uspide down or to begin his tail chasing cycle...

Thanks,
fatal

[rabernet]

First of all, I love his name!

Secondly - has he ALWAYS been like this? As in, did he display this behavior when your friend first got him? Or is this behavior that showed up later?

It sounds to me like a heat related neuroligical problem. What has a vet said about it? I presume he's been seen by a vet for this?

[Kyle1989]

Hate to say it but maby you should think about putting him down.

[Skiploder]

Hey guys, about two months ago I adopted an extremely troublesome ball python from a buddy who was really struggling to take care of him in his situation (money...). Before I get to his problems and ask my own questions I want it clear from the start that husbandry has been spot on from the beginning with this little BP, and that there was no cruelty or any form of harmful actions towards him.

His name is Syntax, he is an 11 month old pastel ball python, and he has probably the most severe head wobble I've ever seen or heard of. While I originally thought wobble only came from the spider gene, it appears it can emerge in other morphs, but it is extremely rare. His wobble is SO severe that he cannot determine direction in any way. He continually flips himself upside down, crosses his eyes, and literally spins in circles like a fish with whirling disease. When he strikes at food, it takes many attempts and he appears only capable of striking vertically (directly up into the air off the ground). It is extremely sad to watch, and seems to create a lot of stress for the snake.

Either as a result of his wobble or perhaps some underlieing neuroligical disorder, Syntax has always had problems eating. He refuses to take f/t, and even frequently refuses live. As such he has seen numerous feeding strikes, and is very underweight for his age, right around 200 grams. However, he doesn't appear skinny, just stunted. He looks as if he were maybe 3-5 months old in length and girth.

He has also had numerous problems with shedding, holding on to shed skin for days and even weeks at a time when it is literally sluffing off of him from touch. Humidity was monitored well with the previous care taker as well as I (50% MINIMUM) and yet he still has problems shedding. Sometimes refusing to shed without assistance (bath/towel combo) when my other BP at with identical husbandry has zero issues.

He also seems to have severe issues adjusting to an environment, regardless of the tub setup, he constantly tries to escape, and rarely hides in his TWO provided hides. He is always moving and burning energy, and severely stressed out.

It is extremely sad to watch, and apart from all these problems the little guy is extremely cute and a joy to handle. I'm dieing to help him live a better stress free life, but I'm at ends as to how I should accomplish it. Just to clarify, his temps/humidity are near perfect. A cold side of 80*, a warm side of 90-94, and humidity never below 50%. He always has fresh water, and is in a secluded tub with minimal exposure to movement and outside activity. Even as I check on him now I see that he is moving around his enclosure, desperate to escape.

What can I do to help this BP? I got him to eat a few small live mice with me, but zero f/t (same result as previous owner) and have tried EVERY f/t trick on the planet... Does anyone have any advice or have heard of this before? Is it possible he has something very wrong with him genetically?

Any advice is appreciated, I just want to make this poor little guy happy.

Thanks,
Fatal

It's more possible he was exposed to a temeprature extreme or chemical that caused this. How long did your friend say he's shown these symptoms? From the beginning? When?

It's more than likely a husbandry related issue or an underlying pathogen.

In the end, it doesn't matter what caused the issue, but what you decide to do about it. If the behavior is constant and there is no underlying medical condition that can be treated (by a vet), the best thing you can do is euthanize him.

[angllady2]

I don't think you should resort to putting him down yet.

If he hasn't been seen by a qualified reptile vet, I'd start there. I agree it sounds like a heat related problem. Ball pythons who get severely overheated almost always develop problems like this if they survive.

Have you tried filling his tub with crumpled paper ? I know many people do that for high strung hatchlings to help get them feeding. Perhaps that might help with his stress levels. Feeding is more of an issue. Even though it is more effort and trouble, if he eats live, let him have whatever he'll eat. Have you tried him on rats ? If you have a source for small rats, some snakes really do better on rats than mice.

If you can reduce his stress, his wobble might get better, or he might always be this way.


Gale

[dr del]

Hi,

As everyone else has said it's a little early to think about putting him down until you have ruled out parasites, temps or chemicals as a primary cause.

How are you measuring those temps and humidity?

And it is possible for snakes to do better at different temp and humidity values - we suggest one way of keeping them on this site but there are many different keepers keeping them in different ways.

Perhaps just keeping him at a higher humidity than the norm would help with the shed issue?


dr del

[JLC]

In addition to the other suggestions, I'd try lowering the temps in the enclosure as well. (Might be tricky if you have it in a rack system...but slightly cooler temps won't hurt the other snakes either) Keep the cool side at 78-80 and the warm side at 85-87.

I'm only thinking out loud, so to speak, but if his neurological issues were caused by a heat spike at some point in his young life, maybe it made him more sensitive to heat in general?

The crumpled paper is also an excellent idea for helping a nervous BP to feel a bit more secure.