Fresh bloodlines

[spitzu]

/rant

The initial groups in my colony are about a year old so I figured that it was time to replace all of my ASFs. I got 2.3 from jsmorphs and made three separate groups out of them by combining them with youngsters out of my own stock. I made two 1.5 groups, and one 1.3 group which should start dropping babies within the next month or so.

Then I get to start the long process of slowly replacing my own colonies so that I don't lose much production. Do you guys really replace your stock every year or so? This is looking like it's going to be a very annoying process to go through constantly.

[Jessica Loesch]

Maybe you can overlap it some?
When I replace the group I have, I'll keep the original until the new is producing.

[spitzu]

I have 2 empty tubs so that I can do just that, but I have about 25 tubs/colonies that need to be replaced so no matter what I do it is going to take a while.

At least I'm not starting from scratch though! It took me like 9 months to get these 100-150 breeders going from the initial handful that I bought.

[SquamishSerpents]

we just had to replace all of ours.

most of them were about a year old and started cannibalizing every litter.

we started right from the beginning, with 12.4

took FOREVER to get them grown up, and OF COURSE as soon as they were starting to breed, 2 of the colonies killed a female. and then i kept a baby and grew it up to replace the killed females, and one of them died too!

grrrr. i was going to have 1 tub with "replacements" growing up at all times, but since i decided to have 4 colonies instead of 3, i don't really know how i'm going to swing that yet.

we only have 6 tubs; 4 breeding colonies, one grow-up bin, and one bin for cleaning rotation.

i'll get it figured out i suppose, lol. MOAR RACKS!? hah, i wish.

but yeah it's definitely a good idea to replace them sometimes, because they sure do go downhill after awhile.

[Jessica Loesch]

we just had to replace all of ours.

most of them were about a year old and started cannibalizing every litter.

we started right from the beginning, with 12.4

took FOREVER to get them grown up, and OF COURSE as soon as they were starting to breed, 2 of the colonies killed a female. and then i kept a baby and grew it up to replace the killed females, and one of them died too!

grrrr. i was going to have 1 tub with "replacements" growing up at all times, but since i decided to have 4 colonies instead of 3, i don't really know how i'm going to swing that yet.

we only have 6 tubs; 4 breeding colonies, one grow-up bin, and one bin for cleaning rotation.

i'll get it figured out i suppose, lol. MOAR RACKS!? hah, i wish.

but yeah it's definitely a good idea to replace them sometimes, because they sure do go downhill after awhile.

I'm assuming you meant 4.12 ...
That must be a pain in the butt!

[SquamishSerpents]

I'm assuming you meant 4.12 ...
That must be a pain in the butt!

haha oops! at least you guys are smart enough to figure it out, lol. it's been a long day!

[Mike Cavanaugh]

Planning the replacement breeders in a way that does not screw up your production is pretty complicated. Seems like it would be easy enough but when you consider the limited space and tracking it can be quite difficult.

The way to aproach this puzzle is by planning a continuous gradual replacement AND accounting for the 4 weeks of non production from new groups when calculating the total number of breeding groups you need to have set up and going at all times.

Sound complicated? It is, especially when you produce a LOT like I do.

Here is a basic example of what works for me. I will use average, easy numbers to explain it as easy as possible... It will be a little long and boring but I know some of you will get a lot out of it so here goes.

Say you have a 10 snake ball python collection and you want to feed them only ASF's that you produce... Some of the ball pythons are adults, some are babies, some are in between. Some eat while in shed, some don't. some eat one a week, a few eat 2. So lets just say you need an average of 15 feeders per week, or 65 per month.

When I guess at how many breeder asf's I need, I usually count on each female producing 8 babies per month. Obviously average litters are higher then that but you have to account for things that will happen... dead babies, newer parents eating babies, mothers sometimes for no particular reason taking a month off, females sometimes just not producing, ect.

So for 65 rats per month you would need 8 actively producing females going at any given time. I prefer 1.2 groups, so that means 4 trios going at once. This will cover your basic feeder needs.

Now for the complication... the replacement rotation. First, I have found the following to be true:

1. For best breeding production pair 4 month old virgin females with a still growing but mature male. (you can put them together earlier then this but this is the optimum time to do it for best production.

2. If you start a female breeding at 4 months old, it is best to retire her as she turns about 11 months old.

3. When you pair 4 month old female virgins with a mature, still growing male they will start regularly producing about a month after they are first put together.

I always have several grow out tubs going at once. This is where I put the weined babies to grow up until they are of feeding size. You have to keep a calander going to track things. When I know that I need a new breeding group in about 3 months, I will pick out 3 of my favorite 1 month old female babies. I will usually pick ones that are a particular color or pattern so they can be easily identified later. I put them in a tub that I always have set up only for future female breeders.

When it is time to replace a breeding group I will go back to the tub holding the future female breeders, and (by color, pattern, and size) identify the ones that are now 4 months old. There should be 3 of them.... I pick my favorite two (and feed off the third) and set them up with my favorite still growing adult male from my grow out tubs. Then put them together and feed off the oldest breeding group.

if there are still babies in the oldest breeding group, just rehome them in one of your other breeding tubs with similar aged babies. This can be done by:

1. remove the adoptive parents from their tub
2. put all the babies together in a pile
3. mix the babies up rubbing the substrate on all (both the new and the old) babies.
4. put them back in a pile.
5. dump the parents back in.

With the numbers and example above, you should plan on replacing the oldest breeding group every 6 weeks or so... That way your breeders never get older then about 10 - 11 months before being retired.

Remember how we first figured that you needed 4 groups going at all times to make enough feeders for your 10 snake collection? Well you have to account for that new group of breeders that you are setting up every 6 weeks. They likely will not produce until a month after they are set up. That means in order for this to work you actually need 5 breeding groups set up at any given time. That is (4 current producing groups +1 new group that was recently set up.

As far as refreshing or bringing new blood into your colonys... I will let you know the first time that I find it necessary to do this. (hasn't happened to me yet and I have made more generations then most.)




Mikey

[Edward F]

You can always just replace females that are slowing down on production. Just leave a couple female babies to grow up in there own colony when they start producing just feed off older females. I think the males can keep going for a long time. I always keep a couple 2 or 3 month old males and females in grow out cages for back up just in case breeding groups stop or die off.

[Rhasputin]

I don't recommend replacing your bloodlines. If you have a good strain, just stick with it, and replace your old stock with babies from their litters.

If you introduce new stuff all the time, you could also be introducing new problems.