Really? ...Really?

[King-Godzilla]

http://www.timesreporter.com/feature...ython-in-Dover

First off, it seems like no one that talked to the reporter knew it was a Ball Python so they automatically think it's dangerous.

Also, I know as a fact that BP's are legal in that city: they're always for sale at a local pet store in Dover!

I live near this city and called the cops on this asking if I can take the snake off their hands and mentioning that I did the same thing with a Jungle Carpet Python (profile pic) 2 years ago in a different city. They said that if a wildlife organization that they contacted won't then I can.

But my main problem is that not all the facts were taken into consideration before reporting it claiming that a perfectly legal snake is banned making the claim false. Also, how hard is it for someone to lock up a snake cage so this story doesn't happen in the first place?! I have 11 snakes and none of them has ever escaped...

[PitOnTheProwl]

Some people are just plain morons and need to be taken out of the gene pool

Why do these people seem to breed the most??

[JLC]

Also, I know as a fact that BP's are legal in that city: they're always for sale at a local pet store in Dover!

Can you PROVE that they're legal to keep in Dover? Just because they're for sale at a particular pet store doesn't meant there isn't a law against them on the books. It just means either no one pays attention or enforces that law...or there is some exception that allows pet stores to sell them so long as they don't sell to Dover residents.

Sounds stupid...but it wouldn't be the first time. We bought our first snake from a really cool pet store in Fairfax, VA. They had a whole bunch of exotic animals for sale, but SOME of them could not be sold to actual Fairfax residents because it was illegal to own them in that county. The store was in Fairfax...but certain animals could only be sold to people who came in from other counties.

Just gotta be careful what assumptions you make.

[sgath92]

http://www.timesreporter.com/feature...ython-in-Dover

First off, it seems like no one that talked to the reporter knew it was a Ball Python so they automatically think it's dangerous.

Also, I know as a fact that BP's are legal in that city: they're always for sale at a local pet store in Dover!

I live near this city and called the cops on this asking if I can take the snake off their hands and mentioning that I did the same thing with a Jungle Carpet Python (profile pic) 2 years ago in a different city. They said that if a wildlife organization that they contacted won't then I can.

But my main problem is that not all the facts were taken into consideration before reporting it claiming that a perfectly legal snake is banned making the claim false. Also, how hard is it for someone to lock up a snake cage so this story doesn't happen in the first place?! I have 11 snakes and none of them has ever escaped...

The pet stores here [different place] sell boas and corns, both of which are illegal in city limits [unless you run a sideshow act or do expeditions, both of which are exempted. Zoos count.].

Off the record; law enforcement will tell you that the law was just really vague and all they really care about are the really big constrictors and anything that becomes a problem. If you have a corn in your kid's bedroom no one is going to care. If you have an 8 ft boa on your shoulders and walk around town & prompt a scared old lady or soccer mom to call in a compliant, then it'll get confiscated under the ordinance.

[sgath92]

505.14 KEEPING OF CERTAIN ANIMALS PROHIBITED.

(a) No person shall keep any swine, goat, sheep or bovine upon any premises not directly connected with any part of slaughtering establishment or stockyard or premises zoned agricultural, and in no event shall swine, goat or bovine either in pastures or in stables be kept nearer than 200 feet to a house or other structure used in whole or in part as a place of human habitation or to any place where food is prepared, placed or kept for commercial purposes or sold. No horses or mules either in pasture or in stables shall be kept nearer than 200 feet to a house or other structure used in whole or part as a place of human habitation or to any place where food is prepared, placed or kept for commercial purposes or sold. The provisions of this subsection may be waived pursuant to subsection (e).

(b) No person shall knowingly keep, maintain or have in his possession or under his control within the City any dangerous or carnivorous wild animal or reptile, any vicious or dangerous domesticated animal, or any other animal or reptile of wild, vicious or dangerous propensities, except to the extent that an exemption may be applicable pursuant to subsections (d) or (e), below. As used in this section dangerous or vicious animal means and includes the following:

(1) Any animal with a known propensity, tendency or disposition to attack unprovoked, to cause injury or to otherwise endanger the safety of human beings or domestic animals; or

(2) Any animal which attacks a human being or domestic animal without provocation; or

(3) Any animal owned or harbored primarily or in part for the purpose of fighting or any animal trained for fighting.
(Ord. 27-00. Passed 5-1-00.)

(c) For purposes of this section, there shall be an irrebuttable presumption that, when kept or maintained within the City, the animals listed below are considered dangerous animals to which the prohibition of subsection (b), in the absence of an exemption pursuant to subsections (d) or (e) below, applies. The animals listed below may, in the discretion of the Police Department of the City of Dover, be seized or ordered seized at the time of the citation or any other time prior to trial. (Ord. 51-00. Passed 9-18-00.)

(1) All crotalid, elapid and venomous colubroid snakes;

(2) Apes: Chimpanzees (Pan); gibbons (Hylobates); gorillas (Gorilla); orangutans (Pongo); and siamangs (Symphalangus);

(3) Baboons (Papoi, Mandrillus);

(4) Bears (Ursidae);

(5) Birds of prey;

(6) Bison (Bison);

(7) Cheetahs (Acinonyx jubatus);

(8) Crocodilians (Crocodilia);

(9) Constrictor snakes or any poisonous specie of reptile;

(10) Coyotes (Canis latrans);

(11) Deer (Cervidae), includes all members of the deer family, for example, white-tailed deer, elk, antelope and moose;

(12) Elephants (Elephas and Loxodonta);

(13) Foxes (Canis vulpes);

(14) Game :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: and other fighting birds;

(15) Hippopotami (Hippopotamidae);

(16) Hyenas (Hyaenidae);

(17) Jaguars (Panthera onca);

(18) Leopards (Panthera pardus);

(19) Lions (Panthera les);

(20) Lynxes (Lynx);

(21) Monkeys, old world (Cercopithecidae);

(22) Ostriches (Struthio);

(23) Piranha fish (Characidae);

(24) Poisonous spiders;

(25) Pumas (Felis concolor), also known as cougars, mountain lions and panthers;

(26) Raccoons;

(27) Rhinoceroses (Rhinocero tidae);

(28) Scorpions;

(29) Sharks ( class Chondrichthyes);

(30) Skunks;

(31) Snow leopards (Panthera uncia);

(32) Singing insects (except honey bees);

(33) Swine (Suidae);

(34) Tigers (Panthera tigris);

(35) Venomous fish;

(36) Wolves (Canis lupus);

(37) Scorpions;

(38) Giraffes;

(39) Camels;

(40) Llama.

(d) Licensed menageries, zoological gardens, and circuses shall be exempt from the provisions of subsections (b) and (c), if all of the following conditions are applicable:

(1) The location conforms to the provisions of the City Planning and Zoning Code;

(2) All animals and animal quarters are kept in a clean and sanitary condition and so maintained as to eliminate objectionable odors;

(3) Animals are maintained in quarters so constructed as to prevent their escape; and

(4) No person resides within fifty feet of the quarters in which the animals are kept.

(e) Notwithstanding any of the foregoing, the Director of Public Service and Safety may grant a specific exemption, on a temporary or permanent basis, from any of the provisions of this section to any person with a legitimate scientific, educational, commercial or other purpose for maintaining the prohibited animals, in accordance with the following provisions:

(1) Written application for exemption shall be filed by any person desiring to obtain an exemption with the Director of Public Service and Safety. The application shall state the applicant's name, address, type and number of animals desired to be kept, general purpose for which the animals will be kept, and a general description of provisions which will be made for safe, sanitary and secure maintenance of the animals.

(2) The Director of Public Service and Safety may grant, deny or restrict the terms of an application for exemption; provided however that, he shall take some official action on an application within 120 days of its filing.

(3) In considering the merits of an application for exemption, the Director of Public Service and Safety may cause one or more inspections of the applicant's premises to be made by appropriate employees or representatives of the City and may also refer the application to persons who are technically knowledgeable with respect to the animals involved for an advisory opinion.

(4) In evaluating an application for exemption, the Director of Public Service and Safety shall give consideration to the following criteria:

A. The experience and knowledge of the applicant relative to the animals involved;

B. Whether the applicant has obtained a Federal or State permit relative to the animals involved;

C. The relative danger, safety and health risks to the general public, to persons residing or passing near the applicant's premises, and to the applicant in connection with the animals involved;

D. The provisions which have been or will be made for the safe, sanitary and secure maintenance of the animals for the protection of the general public, persons residing or passing near the applicant's premises, and the applicant;

E. The provisions which have been made or will be made to protect the safety and health of the animals involved;

F. Any other logically relevant information.

(5) An application for exemption under this subsection (e) shall be denied unless the Director of Public Service and Safety determines that, in view of all the relevant criteria and any restrictions which he may provide, reasonably appropriate measures commensurate with the degree of risk associated with the animals involved have been or will be taken to assure at least a minimum acceptable level of protection from danger to the health and safety of the general public, persons residing or passing near the applicant's premises, and the applicant.

(6) An exemption granted pursuant to this subsection (e) may be withdrawn by action of the Director of Public Service and Safety in the event that the Director determines that there has been a change in the conditions or assumptions under which it was originally granted or in the event that the applicant fails to comply with restrictions originally placed on the exemption.

(f) No exemption granted pursuant to any subsection of this section shall be

construed, nor is it intended by the City as a guaranty or warranty of any kind, whether express or implied, to any person, including without limitation the general public, persons residing or passing near the applicant's premises, or the applicant, either in general or individually, as to the danger, or lack thereof, or degree of risk to health or safety of any animal, specifically or generally, or any premises where any animal is maintained or kept pursuant to such exemption.

(g) Whoever violates any of the provisions of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree for the first offense with an enhancement to a misdemeanor of the third degree for any subsequent offenses. A separate offense should be as deemed committed for each day during or where a violation occurs or continues.
(Ord. 27-00. Passed 5-1-00.)

505.15 REPORT OF ESCAPE OF EXOTIC OR DANGEROUS ANIMAL.

(a) The owner or keeper of any member of a species of the animal kingdom that escapes from his custody or control and that is not indigenous to this State or presents a risk of serious physical harm to persons or property, or both, shall, within one hour after he discovers or reasonably should have discovered the escape, report it to:

(1) A law enforcement officer of the Municipality and the sheriff of the county where the escape occurred, and

(2) The Clerk of the Municipal Legislative Authority.

(b) If the office of the Clerk of the Legislative Authority is closed to the public at the time a report is required by subsection (a) hereof, then it is sufficient compliance with subsection (a) hereof if the owner or keeper makes the report within one hour after the office is next open to the public.

(c) Whoever violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree.
(Ord. 27-00. Passed 5-1-00.)

There you have it. It is explicitly illegal to keep any kind of constrictor snake in city limits. It is mandated by law to report any missing non-native species within one hour from disappearing.

Right there the owner broke two laws. Every pet shop selling corns, boas, or pythons in city limits is in violation of the law. It is very clear.

It's the 9th link down on the right column of the city's government website [under "Quick Links']:
http://www.doverohio.com/

You might want to double check local laws before contacting the media or law enforcement considering that if you live in their jurisdiction they probably have you now dead to rights on keeping prohibited animals depending on what you told them.

[lk_holla]

(1) All crotalid, elapid and venomous colubroid snakes;

(9) Constrictor snakes or any poisonous specie of reptile;


soo... does this mean its legal to have venomous snakes as long as they aren't crotalus, elapidae, or colubridae... considering how they aren't poisonous?

[sgath92]

(1) All crotalid, elapid and venomous colubroid snakes;

(9) Constrictor snakes or any poisonous specie of reptile;


soo... does this mean its legal to have venomous snakes as long as they aren't crotalus, elapidae, or colubridae... considering how they aren't poisonous?

Stupid law is stupid.

Unfortunately that argument would probably never succeed in court.

However this would be a good time for someone to go in front of the town council to say "your law is written really badly, I recommended you change a few things. For instance not all constricting snakes are dangerous and not all venomous snakes are poisonous." Who knows. Maybe if someone approaches the right board member, the law will get changed and balls & corns will be legalized again.

Local animal laws are infamous for not being well written. Usually a town council simply enacts a law identical to one that already exists in a neighboring town so all it takes is for one town to use a stupid phrase like "constricting snakes" and the citizen's rights fall like dominos in town after town after town. This is why constrictors are illegal in most cities & suburbs in eastern PA. One suburb years ago criminalized constrictors and neighboring towns slowly decided they needed an exotics law and simply copy & pasted into the law books the one from the first town. Over the years this spread and spring and now, all because of one town, constrictors are illegal in some municipalities as far away as Ohio and northern New York. To make it worse some companies pick what they consider "good local laws" and put them in pay-sites or books that they then sell to other manicipalities as reference material. These reference materials are then typically copy & pasted into town law books by politicians who are too lazy to bother with writing new laws themselves from scratch. The unnamed suburb I speak of had its exotics law chosen for publication by these reference material companies I speak of so expect this to happen in a town near you in the future.

[King-Godzilla]

Well then it's a good thing I don't live in Dover then lol, just near it.

But then why hasn't the pet shop been closed down or fined since it does sells them? The first snake I got was a corn snake I bought there. Is it simply because unless it's a "monster," venomous, or there have been complaints the cops don't care about it? I know a few people in the city that owns Balls and Boas and they've never had any problems with the law.

[sgath92]

Well then it's a good thing I don't live in Dover then lol, just near it.

But then why hasn't the pet shop been closed down or fined since it does sells them? The first snake I got was a corn snake I bought there. Is it simply because unless it's a "monster," venomous, or there have been complaints the cops don't care about it? I know a few people in the city that owns Balls and Boas and they've never had any problems with the law.

Most people who break the law never have a problem with the law.

The only way a criminal act can cause someone a headache is 1- if law enforcement realizes a crime took place and 2- the system chooses to go after you [i.e. DA, judge, etc].

Example: In NH every car is required to have a muffler. No exceptions. But the law says nothing about really ancient cars [like from the 1800s] or electric cars. No cop is going to go "that electric car doesn't have a muffler, I need to give them a ticket." Yet that electric car would be breaking the law each day it goes on the roads. No one is going to go to a car show and ticket a model T owner for not having a muffler the car never came with from the factory.

But, if someone were "being a problem" and pissing off the community by [for example] building a rat rod using a model T and doing burn outs & donuts in a school zone... then a cop might go "we need to teach this guy a lesson" and ticket them for every little nickle and dime thing they did wrong. Including not having a muffler.

Moral of the story: If you don't "be a problem" you can get away with breaking the law. Don't put yourself in a position where people will want to give you a hard time. Meaning if you aren't allowed by the local government to own constrictors: Don't take it outside. Don't let it escape your house. Don't show it to people. Don't talk about having it. Don't let it bite someone who might call the cops [like a neighbor's kid whose parents might freak out and call the police]. Keep small species that no one is going to care about if they do find out about it. I've had cops flat out tell me that they don't care about corns even though they're technically illegal. Why? Because they don't become "a problem."

Think about speeders. Who actually does 65 in a 65 zone on the highway? They don't care if you do 67, 69, or even 70 mph. But if you buzz by a speed trap at 90 you're going to have a ticket. This is probably why people detest speed cameras so much. There is no cop on site to make a reasonable judgment call on who is "being a problem" and everyone who goes 66 or higher gets a ticket.