Probe depths for male v. female

[shelliebear]

I got Madison probed a few months back and if I remember she was 5 sub caudal scales in depth, which, I believe, is right in the middle of male and female.
How do I tell which one she is if she's too small to breed, and very resistant to popping? (she flexes her muscles when I try to pop her so if it's a boy no hemipenes are ever coming out of there without her say-so)
Is 5 more likely to be a female or male?

[ptate]

At 5, I'd say you have a male. I would recommend probing again to double check the accuracy of the first time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ClarkT]

Are there other females around her/him? If so, it's likely that a male would have sperm plugs. Sperm plugs come out relatively easily when trying to pop a male (if he's having sperm plugs..)

You'll probably have to have her/him probed again.
5 does sound more towards male that female...

[jfmoore]

If I were doing the probing, then 5 subcaudals = FEMALE. I had more than a couple of "males" I probed that turned into females before I figured this out, beginning with the first one I kept from the first clutch I hatched out in 1983.

Since you said that someone else did the probing for you, then I have no idea if you have a male or female. Flip a coin.

[shelliebear]

There are 2 other males, and I've successfully popped both of them and found sperm plugs, no problem.
Madison, no matter how many times I pop her, shows no hemipenes, and absolutely no sperm plugs or anything like it.
Both my other males are bigger than her and I popped them successfully--I'm worried maybe since Madison is a little smaller than them I might not be popping at the right spot to get her penes out, if she has any.
I will get her re probed, and I'd like to do it myself but have never done it and so I'm a bit confused/nervous.
At 300 grams or so would a ball python be producing sperm plugs for sure? I have to get her weighed but I do believe she's in that range.
But like I said, there are 2 other definite males in the same room who have sperm plugs and she has none.
Hmmmm.

[ClarkT]

If she's only 300 grams, I'm guessing for sure it's a female. Especially if you have already successfully popped bigger, older males.

At 300 grams, I'd be surprised if it produces sperm plugs...Again, I'm guessing you have a little girl on your hands.

[shelliebear]

Ok. Thanks, I'll get her probed again just to make sure, and keep on trying to pop her, but Nergal is like three or four times her weight and yup, I popped him alright.
I'm hoping we finally have a girl since as I plan to breed, I'd love to already have a beautiful female, normal or not. She is gorgeous.
Will post to this thread again if she probes/pops different.
I appreciate the advice so much; I can't thank you all enough for your input.
Thank you.

[jfmoore]

Hey, quit squeezing on that poor girl's tail. Seriously, if your popping technique was good enough to determine the two males' sex, then you ought to trust that you've done it correctly on the presumed female, too.

If you want to learn how to probe snakes, ball pythons are a lot easier to practice on then, say, hatchling corn snakes. The thing I always wonder about if someone whom I don't know has done the probing, is were they too cautious when they got to what they thought was the end. If you use plenty of lube and twirl the probe while you're inserting it instead of just trying to push it straight in, then it should slip w a a a y down (9+ subcaudals) for male ball pythons. For females, 4 to 5 subcaudals is really quite common.

[shelliebear]

Uhm....I wasn't aware popping harms them. Otherwise, Ralph Davis messed some of his snakes up in his popping/probing video, didn't he?
How do you know when you're probing that you've "hit the bottom"? What does it feel like?

[LadyOhh]

It feels like hitting a wall of flesh.

If you do it gently, it's really very obvious.